Episcopal @ MindSay

Finally I'm able to just sit and let the words roll again...

This picks up from March 29ths posting.....

Backing up_

I met James(my husband now,then boyfriend!) when I was 15 and in the 10th grade. In those days, High school was split up into 2 years each,9-10 and 11-12, each at seperate places. It was the tail end of 10th grade and I was able to miss my last clas of the day because I was traveling on an activity bus to my Sr high school to try out for "Dancing Boots". There was a period of about 2 weeks where each afternoon I went to the Sr. high to try out. I made the team. More on this later....  Anyway, I decided to keep skippping my last class of the day which was, History! I made A's in there anyway...  I went and hung out on my bus instead. My bus driver was really cute and we had struck up being friends. Several bus drivers hung out on his bus while waiting for classes to let out, and we had a good time kidding around. At the time, I was dating James' best friend.I hadn't met James yet...  Anyway, it's late May, early June of 1979... The then boyfriend was becoming a pain...trying to ditch me.. He shows up at my house one afternoon to break a date with me and lo and behold, James is in the backseat of his car. He(the boyfriend) had several friends with him.  The boyfriend and I argued a bit, then James decided to say something... My very first words to him were" Why don't you just shut-up and mind your own business!" Well, great beginning huh? LOL- anyway the jerk and I broke up and then James started hanging out on my bus with the other drivers. He was a bus driver too. We picked on each other and kinda got to know one another.James was 2 years older than me and he was getting ready to graduate high school. Then James calls me one evening and asks me out. Our first date was June 15th,1979.  We went to see"Rocky 2" and then went to Hardees to eat. We went out just about every day after that first date. All summer long we went to tons of movies(they only cost us about $5.00 for the 2 of us to go!) and hung out. On July 10th, James gave me a promise ring. that was the thing back then. He said he had never met anyone like me and he was in love with me and I was "it", the ONE he'd been searching for. I felt the same way.  We talked for hours on the phone at night, usually my dad ran me off the phone at 2 in the morning! LOL Those were the days of one phone houses, and rotary phones! Ha!  We talked about nothing in particular, and just basically had fun. I turned 16 on July 12th and tried to have a sweet 16 party but it was planned for outside and it rained that day and evening, so there went my party, BUT James stuck by me all day and he took me out that night instead. One of the best birthdays I can remember! I started Sr high in the fall, and I quit the Dance team! Told ya I'd tell ya later about it... I wanted to be with James all the time so I quit! No regrets here! Anyway, we had  good year as we grew closer and closer. then I started my Sr. year. it's now mid 1980. Senior year was  a blast! Too much fun! Then Nov- Dec 1980 rolls around. James shows me these house plans that he drew up when he was younger and asks me if I llike them. I said I did. They were of a split- foyer with a full basement. Typical for that generation. I didn't think much of it.  Then James takes me to a wooded lot and says"This is where we are gonna build our house"    I'm thinking, Ok he's planning for down the road. We proceed to rope off an area in the woods to the size of a house.   next thing I know within the week, he has people out there digging out a basement and cutting down trees.....  Hummmm..... Anyway, James,his brother, and his dad all had two weeks off at Christmas... So they start building a house on top of the basement which has been blocked already...... the house gets framed out totally during those 2 weeks.... Now I can say that James took me for granted! LOL builing a house and I hadnt even said YES yet! LOL then Christmas Eve arrives and James is at my house for the evening. We steal some time alone in the living room.. he gives me this big box to open.... I open it and pull out a stuffed Panda Bear that is holding a fish velcroed to his paws. On the fish is a note. I open the note and it says in big letters"This is It! Will you marry me?"   I looked at him in surprise and he asks me, on his knees."Will You Marry Me,Tracee? I love you with all my heart."  I of course start crying and say "YES!"  Now I'm just 17 years old still at this point and still in high school, but I didnt care!  I had wanted to be a wife and mom since a little girl. I didnt care to go off to college.  I wanted a family to love! He slipped a ring on my finger and we kissed!   so we go to the den where my family is gathered and make our little announcement. Dad was a bit shocked, but he knew the day had been drawing near.... They gave us their blessing, but said I had to wait til  I graduated and til after I was 18. they weren't going to sign for me to get married because they didnt want me to come to them if the marriage didnt work and say you let me do this thing!  it was to be totally me!  more on this later!  

 Anyway, we got their blessings. now meanwhile, I had been going to church with James for a long time. I grew up in the Episcopal church, and my family didn't attend regularly. I believed in GOD, but I didn't KNOW GOD... I was basically a GOOD person... well, James was Baptist, and I had been hearing some things that I questioned him about alot. James was talking to me a lot and having me read verses. Well, on a Sunday night on Feb.8th 1981, I was with James at  his church for a revival meeting. James Ellis was the speaker. he preached Hell and Brimstone that night, but not in a condescending way... he explained things that were clear as a bell to me that night. my eyes and my heart were opened. Later that evening after lots of my questions to  my James in my living room at home, I accepted Christ as my Personal Saviour!  I was so giddy with happiness! my heart was overflowing... It does us good to remember the time and place we met the Master...   James was very happy too.  he had been working on me for a long time, and even though he had asked me to marry him knowing I wasn't saved, he had hope. he knew he was risking alot too. Believers should never yoke with unbelievers. the Bible tells us. His family had told him he shouldn't get involved with me, but when they heard that I got saved that night, they accepted me whole heartedly.   only thing was, I couldn't tell my dad about what I had done. Dad had a way of twisting things around and he would argue someone blue in the face, that there is no hell. so I kept this from my family for the time being. I knew God would let me know when the time was right  For Valentines day that following week, James gave me a scofield Bible, which I still carry and use to this day. that was a very loving present..   The months came on by and in late May of '81 we finished the house. it was ready.   I was busy planning my wedding and getting ready to graduate high school. Now is where I need to say that I did alot of the planning myself, bymyself. i didnt have my mother to turn to in this. She was there, but not really there. She is manic-depressive or bi-polar as the term better is known now. Since I was 11 she had been in and out of mental hospitals. I saw bizzarre behaviour during those yeaars and I had to grow up quick. I came home from school and took care of my younger brother. I got home before he did. I cleaned and cooked, and washed,etc... My brother is 6 years younger than me, and I hid him from a lot of what was going on.   anyway, It came down to the week before the wedding which by the way we planned for July 18th 1981. Dont think I mentioned that before now!  Those days you had to have your marriage license ahead of time. Well, guess what, the week before the 18th was the 12th which was my 18th birthday, and I had to carry my mom with me downtown for the license and SHE had to sign! we had to go on the 11th to get it, and being I wasn't 18 yet(just by a day!) and she had to sign! She was ticked!  anyway, got through that then the wedding. (At the end of May I graduated!) 

 

 

fast forward through those first years now...... Lots of things happened to us along the way, a son in 1988 and a daughter in 1991, along with the typical ups and downs of a marriage. It takes TWO. You both have to give and take in a marriage. IT CANNOT BE ONESIDED!!!  yes, we were young, and a lot of our friends said it wouldn't last, but it has, and it's almost 27 years strong....and going.....

anyway, some things happened in 1993 that werent good financially. So, my parents gave up their little apartment and moved in with us..... For 8 years they lived with us and got us back on our feet. During those years, Was when GOD opened the door and showed me how to witness to my dad. he was still stubborn... So I didnt talk, I SHOWED him Christian love... And he knew there was something differnet..... he saw it and felt it....  To this day though, I'm not sure about my Dad. I Lost him in March of 2007. I was able to be by his bedside alone with him and I was able to pour my heart out to him then. they always say the hearing is the last to go.... he was in a coma, and I have hope he heard me.... I cling to my hope everyday... I pray I see my dad again in Heaven one day... I do have a bit of peace about it. the Lord has given me that, but I dont know the truth about dad... as I said, I have hope....

 

 

There's still alot of blank spaces I could write and fill in, maybe one day I will. My moms battle still goes on. As she ages, it seems to get worse. That is a story in itself. All the horrors of a mental illness that I witnessed as a young girl, as an adult. They are too painful to write about. I still have humps to overcome with this myself. it took a long time to just understand that my mother wasn't doing those things on purpose, that she didnt know and couldn't control it. it took a long time to forgive..... mental illness hurts.. it hurts those who love you the most.... but she is my mother and I love her... sometimes its all I can do....

The following article was spot on so I thought I would post it here.

CuldeeDeacon +

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IRD President: "Religion Without Foundations: The split in the mainline denominations is about more than politics"

Source: The Weekly Standard
by Jim Tonkowich
07/26/2006

For those who are shocked by the crack-up of the Episcopal Church, let me explain: The answer was on a T-shirt I saw last month while traveling to the Presbyterian Church USA General Assembly in Birmingham and the Episcopal Church General Convention in Columbus. It read, "I'm Making It Up As I Go." Exactly.

Both denominational meetings were characterized by division, polarization, and discord as conservatives and liberals attempted to discern and approve God's will on issues ranging from divestment from companies doing business with Israel to gay clergy to the doctrine of the Trinity ("Mother, Child, and Womb"?). As left and right argued their cases, the real issue emerged. It is not the opposing opinions on assorted overtures and resolutions that divide left and right; it is the underlying understanding of truth, and how we know it.

The left--also known as progressives, liberals, revisionists, and (in some circles) heretics--base their convictions on individualism, subjectivity, and majority vote with passing references to Scripture and creeds. The right--also known as traditionalists, conservatives, evangelicals, and orthodox (not necessarily said as a compliment)--insist on submission to the authority of the Bible and of historic confessions, regardless of contemporary preferences. It is this division that makes the conflict between the two sides so rancorous. Compromise on issues is possible. Compromise on the fundamental questions of truth and authority is not.

In a debate about whether the Presbyterian Church should divest from companies doing business with Israel, former Moderator Rick Ufford-Chase noted that the Israelis had their passion and the Palestinians had their passion. The solution, he said, is to affirm and embrace both. The fact that Hamas controls the Palestinian government and that Hamas's passion is to kill Jews and wipe Israel off the map never entered the conversation. Passions are the touchstone, not reason and analysis. His suggestion, thankfully, was rejected.

In the same session, several speakers--mostly pastors--argued in favor of divestment, explaining that they had visited the Palestinians, "engaged in dialogue," and were "deeply concerned. No one informed these undoubtedly well-meaning people that the plural of "anecdote" is not "data." After all, with all that sincerity, who would want to call their judgment into question? In the end, the PCUSA did the right thing and voted to end divestment, but not without a very unusual debate.

As for gay clergy, the denomination elected to leave the rules against ordaining practicing homosexuals on their books while permitting a local option of ignoring the rules. This, of course, permits local churches to ordain polygamists or polyamorists--or just about anyone else--as well.

IN COLUMBUS, when Katharine Jefferts Schori preached her first sermon to the Episcopal Church General Convention as presiding bishop-elect, she announced, "Our mother Jesus gives birth to a new creation and we are his children." No doubt many in attendance thought this was wonderfully profound--as undoubtedly Bishop Schori and her handlers did. The conservatives, however, heard this gibberish as, well . . . gibberish and heretical gibberish at that.

In contrast to Christians through the ages, the denominational left has substituted sentiments for facts, passions for authority, and subjectivity for reason. Their belief seems to be that if they "create space for dialogue" it will allow them to emote and vote with the result that a simple majority determines the new revised standard version of God's truth and will.

Having so emoted and voted, the PCUSA has begun experimenting with reformulations of the doctrine of the Trinity. "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit" will be substituted with "Mother, Child and Womb," "Rock, Redeemer, Friend," "Rainbow, Ark, and Dove," and other assorted triads. Again, the left is satisfied that dialogue and a vote have revealed God's truth. God names Himself anything a majority of delegates--presumably lead by the Holy Spirit--say He names Himself.

No wonder the left and right can't get along. They live in parallel universes and can barely communicate with each other.

THIS SAME CONFUSION OVER TRUTH is rapidly infecting the evangelical world as churches drink the "emerging church" Kool-Aid. Emerging or post-modern church leaders insist that truth is relational and must be experienced. I agree, but to leave it there is to fall into the same subjectivist error in which the mainline/old-line denominations are mired. The traditional Christian understanding is that truth is true even if it is not experienced. It is true objectively and absolutely. This is an assertion for which modern people have little patience.

In a speech given in 1898, Dutch theologian, pastor, politician, and professor Abraham Kuyper diagnosed modern problem with understanding the nature of truth: "Everyone who thinks he can abandon the Christian truths, and do away with the Catechism of Reformation, lends ear unawares to the hypotheses of the modern world-view and, without knowing how far he has drifted already, swears by the Catechism of Rousseau and Darwin."

Having abandoned a Christian epistemology and, thus, Christian truths, the mainline/old-line denominations will continue their inexorable drift to the sideline. The current breakdown in the Episcopal church is the natural result of this crisis in authority and truth. The results will be a liberal vestige with lovely buildings and lots of endowment money, but few people.

Left and right represent radically different understanding of faith and truth. It's the difference between "Making It Up As I Go" and "Thus saith the Lord."

Jim Tonkowich is president of the Institute on Religion & Democracy.

As always the Episcopal Church can count on good ol' Rowan Williams to stand up for what's right. Sure. Williams, also called the ABC (Archbishop of Canterbury but really means Another Bigoted Christian), has decided to go back to the dark ages, ignore Jesus and throw another punch in the face of gays and lesbians. He prostrated to a group of sanctimonous, pompous, arrogant and ignorant Anglicans and I don't mean the Royal Family. To satisfy the Anglicans in South East Asia, South America and Africa he He said that you MUST toe the line on homosexuality or get put out to the curb. Now I expect this kind of blind loyalty in dogs, Baptists and Republicans, but out of Anglicans?

Hey if you wanna hate then become a Southern Baptist, after all they are the epitome of Christ's love. If you want to follow Christ's teachings then go to the Episcopal Church or the United Church of Christ or the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ). They practice such ungodly things as feeding the hungry (without making starving people sit through a sermon to get their meal), clothe the naked, visit the imprisoned and show compassion toward their fellow man (no exceptions). I challenge anybody to show me in the Bible where Jesus says, " Love your neighbor as yourself, except for homosexuals, liberals, the poor and anyone that dosen't belong to your church". Isn't going to happen anytime soon. Yes I know what Leviticus says. Well here is what the bible also says:

 

Leviticus 19:19 - 19 "You must obey all my decrees.
  "Do not mate two different kinds of animals. Do not plant your field with two different kinds of seed. Do not wear clothing woven from two different kinds of thread. (NLT)

Better throw out those clothes with the cotton/polyester blend and farmers, God better not catch you planting the soybeans alongside the corn. Christians: 1 - Hypocrites: 0

 

Leviticus 20:9 Anyone who dishonors father and mother must be put to death. Such a person is guilty of a capital offense. (NLT) Gotta keep those rugrats in line.

Christians: 2 - Hypocrites: 0

 

Matthew 5:32 But I say that a man who divorces his wife, unless she has been unfaithful, causes her to commit adultery and anyone who marries a divorced woman also commits adultery. (NLT) Anyone condeming homosexuality should focus on their own damn family first. Did you marry a divorced woman? If so you are an A..D..U..L..T..E..R..E..R. Christians: 3 - Hypocrites: 0

 

For the women out there:

1 Corinthians 11:5-6 - 5 But a woman dishonors her head if she prays or prophesies without a covering on her head, for this is the same as shaving her head.6 Yes, if she refuses to wear a head covering, she should cut off all her hair! But since it is shameful for a woman to have her hair cut or her head shaved, she should wear a covering.(NLT)

I don't remember seeing many women with covered heads in evangelical churches.

Christians: 4 - Hypocrites: 0

 

1 Corinthians 14:34-35 - 34 Women should be silent during the church meetings. It is not proper for them to speak. They should be submissive, just as the law says. 35 If they have any questions, they should ask their husbands at home, for it is improper for women to speak in church meetings. (NLT) Is that a woman giving a testimony I see? Leading a Sunday School class? (gasps!) AND giving a devotional!?!?!? Surely not!

Christians: 5 - Hypocrites: 0

 

Galatians 5:3-4 - 3 I'll say it again. If you are trying to find favor with God by being circumcised, you must obey every regulation in the whole law of Moses.4 For if you are trying to make yourselves right with God by keeping the law, you have been cut off from Christ! You have fallen away from God's grace. (NLT) Just like his daddy and granddaddy before him. Sorry no pork chops, cheeseburgers or shrimp for you.

Christians: 6 - Hypocrites: 0

 

Here's an idea: try reading the WHOLE Bible before you open your mouth!

 

 

 

 

E and I were in Albany, NY this past weekend. We went to St.
Peter's Protestant Episcopal Church - www.stpeterschurchalbany.org -
on Sunday morning. The cathedral was beautiful and the architecture
inside and out was amazing to say the least. It was a pretty
high-church service, but I enjoyed the liturgy and Father Hartt's very
brief homily. It was Christ-centered, and that made it a good one.
Anyone else been to a church lately that you are not a member of?