Daughter @ MindSay

After 15....yes, 15 hours of deliberation, we have a verdict!!!  At around 3:30 pm this afternoon, the jury in the case against Dale Neumann came back with a verdict.  Finally.  I was seriously afraid that it would be a hung jury and it would start all over again with a new jury.  But, no, the jury finally was able to come to a consensus.

And a GOOD one at that.  We the jury, find Dale Neumann.....an idiot.  No, unfortunately that's not against the law, even though it should be.  He was found GUILTY of second degree reckless homicide, in the death of his 11 year old daughter!!  :D  <---- smiles at the verdict, not the death of his daughter.  I didn't celebrate as loudly as I did when his wife was convicted because I feel like ass today, but I still am thrilled with the verdict.

When the guilty verdict was read, he showed NO emotion.  What does that tell you?  A gag order is still in effect, meaning that no one from the prosecutors office, defense attorney, Dale Neumann himself, are allowed to comment.  But, as he left the courtroom, Neumann was heard humming a song and seen carrying his Bible.  Sentencing is in October at the same time as his wife's.  They both are out on bail right now and will continue to be.

Apparently because of these two trials, the county's budget is in the red and will need to dip into an emergency fund.  The county taxpayers paid $30k for attorney and jury expenses before Dale Neumann's verdict was read, and the Clerk of Courts says that they would likely end up contributing to the emergency fund as well.  And, when you think about it, the taxpayers are also paying for both Neumann's prison time.  We're bending over and taking it in the ass for them killing their daughter.  Doesn't seem like true justice, does it?

You can read more or watch video at WSAW.com.

Today closing statements were given in the trial against 47 year old Dale Neumann.  He is being tried for second degree reckless homicide in the death of his daughter Kara, 11.  She died from untreated diabetes in March 2008.  His wife, Leilani, was convicted of the same charges in May 2009. 

The prosecutor said that the failure to obtain medical treatment was a substantial factor in causing Kara's death.  He said that she'd been limp like a rag doll and comatose the entire morning of her death and there had been plenty of time to save her life; according to testimony by medical personnel, she didn't have the normal appearance of a child at all.  The prosecutor stated that diabetes is easily treated and untreated diabetes results in death (which is why I take my insulin!!).  He argued that Neumann did nothing to put an end to Kara's suffering and misery, and while he had medical training as a former deputy sheriff, he minimized his daughter's condition.  The prosecutor emphasized that Neumann made Kara's illness a test of his own faith and asked the jury to find Neumann guilty of second degree reckless homicide.

The defense attorney said the state hasn't proven basic elements of the case; he said that dispatch helped cause Kara's death by not initially sending an ambulance after being told of Kara's comatose state.  He also says that the state didn't bring one witness to prove Neumann was phony or aware his actions of faith healing would cause Kara's death. 

The prosecutor rebutted to the closing argument stating that Kara lying there for hours and hours and not being given medical treatment was a substantial factor.  The prosecutor then tells the jury that they should find the great bodily harm reason to convict, if they can't convict on Neumann's awareness she would die.

The jury started deliberating around 10:30 am.  It got to be around dinner time and it was announced they had not reached a verdict.  They chose to keep going for a while before taking a dinner break.  Around 7 they took a break for dinner, and it was around 8:30 pm they interrupted television to announce that the jury would be sequestered for the evening in a hotel and in the morning they would go back to the courthouse to return to deliberations.  It seems the jury is at an impasse.  Deadlocked.  Cannot come to a unanimous decision. 

In Leilani's trial, they reached a verdict in around 4 hours.  This time?  10 hours and nothing.  The bastard is gonna get off, and why?  Perhaps because he ranted like a crazy man on the stand.  I've never been on a jury, but I know that the more people that have to make a decision on something, the more difficult.  You have conflicting personalities from different backgrounds and ways of thinking.  What I wouldn't give to be a fly on the wall in that jury room.  I suppose no one will really know until afterward when the jurors are more able to talk about things that may have swayed their decision.

Hopefully the next time I blog about this, it will be with a verdict.  Even more, to announce a guilty verdict. 

It's not right to just sit and pray when a child is dying, especially from something that is very curable.

I didn't update yesterday because there wasn't much to update with.  Today, however....is another story.

On Thursday, the State finished up with their witnesses, first reviewing Dale Neumann's police interview with a police captain/lead investigator.  Neumann states things on the video such as "The Lord is in control; He can heal and he can raise the dead too.", "Our confidence is not in medicine, our confidence is not in doctors, our confidence is in the Lord and Him only.", and when asked on the video if he believes Kara can come back from the dead, Neumann responds "yes".  Dale's mother then takes the stand and tells that she urged the family to take Kara to the hospital; she said that she raised Dale as Christian, but can't believe what happened because she could never watch any of her own children die.  After the lunch break, another pediatrician testified to Kara's condition, saying she was very emaciated and wasted.  He also said that the Neumann family didn't ask why Kara died, which he remembers as unusual.

The defense is now able to call their witnesses.  The first is a customer of the Neumann's former business - a coffee shop.  The woman claims to have seen Kara at the business the Thursday before she died (on a Sunday) and she was perky, cheerful, chipper, and smiling.

Today - Thursday morning - the defense's next witness is Dale's uncle, who was also at the coffee shop on Thursday before Kara died.  He also testifies that she seemed busy and energetic.  An acquaintence of the family who was involved in their bible groups testified that he saw Kara six days before she died and she seemed normal, yet had dark circles under her eyes.  Another family friend and bible group attendee testified.  She stated that Kara seemed normal in the last few weeks of her life, but on the day Kara died, she went to their house because she sensed something was wrong.  She prayed with the family; she also testified to Dale's great faith and confidence that his daughter would get better.  When the friend left the house, she said she had a feeling of peace and felt Kara would be fine.

Then, the defense's final witness took the stand - Dale Neumann himself.  The following is directly from WSAW.com and their live blogging where I've been getting my information.  I didn't feel I could adequately sum up what he said, so I'm posting it as the news reporter blogged it.  Except for some of my comments in italics and I bolded a couple things.

2:08 PM: Defense calls Dale Neumann to the stand...he's carrying his bible.

2:10 PM: Neumann says time of recorded police interview was one of the most difficult times of his life.

2:14 PM: Neumann says, "Dale Neumann is dead and Jesus Christ is now in me. I am his."

2:23 PM: Neumann testifies as a young man he wasn't content, had a great job, had money, was travelling, was also cursing and drinking too much.

2:28 PM: Neumann screams in court, "God! If there's a God, show me a better way!" He's referring to why he became born again.

2:33 PM: Neumann screams again, "God we're so blind!!!" He's referring to his conversion to his new faith back in 1982.

2:42 PM: Neuman: "I physically felt something fall off of me when I came out of the water." After his born again baptism.

2:48 PM: Neumann: "Holy spirit spoke to me and said, are you willing to suffer for me? Yeah Lord I'm willing." Says he was called to ministry.

3:02 PM: Neumann is reading scriptures..it's like he's preaching to the jury.

3:13 PM: Neumann: I've seen cancers fall off in meetings, have seen physical healings in meetings I've attended.

3:18 PM: Neumann says Jesus never went to a doctor.

That's cuz he's Jesus!!  Duh!!

3:21 PM: Neumann is again reading from scriptures to explain why he believes God directed him not to seek traditional medical treatment.

3:42 PM: Neumann testifies in every instance Jesus healed, he never directed anybody to go to the doctor.

Is this because Jesus was the one healing?!?!

4:15 PM: Dale testifies that in the months prior to her death, there were no signs of diabetes or illness.

4:17 PM: Dale testifies that Saturday morning back in March of 2008 was the first time he noticed any signs.

4:37 PM: Dale testifies that on Sunday morning... he thought Kara improved, thinking whatever this is will "burn" out of Kara.

Let me tell you, the only thing burning at any point was that girl's thirst because her blood sugar was so incredibly high!  If diabetes just "burned" out by prayer, mine would have gone away years ago!!

4:55 PM: Dale testifies that he did not think she would die if they didn't take her to a doctor... he says death wasn't even on his mind.

But in the future, should you get to be a free man, if your kids get sick - what will you do?  Pray or take them to a doctor?

5:06 PM: Dale says when asked if there is anything else he would like the jury to know, "Why would I in a moment of crisis, go to anyone" but the Lord.

5:05 PM: Dale cries while reading Scripture

5:12 PM: Dale testifies that he has no trust in man.

5:44 PM: Dale testifies that losing his daugher was very hard.

But not compared to that police interview which was "one of the hardest days of your life"??

5:49 PM: Dale is off the stand.

6:10 PM: Defense rests.

I was able to see a short video clip on the news tonight from part of his testimony.  All I could think was....OMG.  He looked like a crazed maniac, and he would have been better off pleaing not guilty by reason of mental defect - he would have had me convinced for sure!  In watching Leilani's testimony (video clips) and him on the stand, I can say that while they both seem like whack jobs, she was far more composed.  He came off like a total lunatic.  If you go to WSAW.com, you may be able to find a clip.  There might be one floating around on the Associated Press, but I'm not sure.  All I know is that I was blown away, and if I were a juror, I would have had to surpress laughter. 

From what I understand, closing arguments are tomorrow morning, and there could be a verdict as early as tomorrow afternoon!  So for those of you who are sick of hearing about this, it's almost over.  Until sentencing, that is!  And appeal courts.  I didn't blog nearly as much during Leilani's trial, and I wish I had - but I was finishing up school and graduating, so this time around I wanted to follow this thing "right".  Here's hoping a guilty verdict is to follow!

Today's updates are interesting.  First, I noticed this evening that there is a story link on msn.com, titled "Mom of dead girl: Sickness was test of faith".  If you go to this article, it is discussing the case I have been writing about, and is also discussing some of today's testimony.  I was kind of, well not shocked, but amazed that my smaller area would make a headline on msn.com.

So, to elaborate, the Neumann family believes that sickness is caused by sin and can be cured by God and through prayer.  She stated today while on the stand that they didn't take Kara to the doctor because to do so would have been disobedient to what they believe in.  She also said she felt they were in their legal right to pray, and that their family isn't against doctors, but the practice of that kind of medicine isn't biblical.  Leilani was on the stand for 5 hours; the judge actually had to interject at one point and ask her to give more concise answers.  Because she gave such long answers and was up there so long, the judge chose to keep everyone in court until 7 pm.  Family friends and former family friends testified; I was able to watch a bit of it on live streaming for about 30 minutes - pretty neat, though surprised that it was being shown live.  One of the former family friends apparently told the Neumann's on the day Kara died that God created the knowledge that is used to perform medicine - something that many people have commented to say when they hear about this trial.  It's nice to know that someone that close to the situation actually spoke those words, but it's unfortunate that it made no difference.  Another thing that was used as a comparison, in order to convince them to call for help, was that when your car doesn't work, you take it to a mechanic - someone who is trained to fix the car.  Dale Neumann responded to that by saying he's seen people pray over their cars and they run better.

Testimony ended today after the four friends.  The prosecution hopes to have finished calling all their witnesses by the end of Wednesday.

On the front page of Sunday's paper, the headline read "Treatment would've killed girl, says prayer father defense".  The article went on to say that doctors would have likely killed the girl if she'd gone in for treatment because "her symptoms were far from typical for this complex disease."  It was also said that the doctors would have made mistakes and that they likely would have done standard procedures which would have hastened the girl's death because of the way diabetes was operating in her body.  The assistant district attorney pointed out that she was pale, emaciated, and struggled to breathe in her final hours, was in a coma, and they chose not to seek a doctor's help.  He stated "this is not a case of a parent's right to raise kids as they see fit or the parent's right to pray.  It's about Madeline Kara Neumann's needless suffering and death."  The defense attorney urged the jurors to focus on the witnesses' descriptions of Kara's symptoms and to compare that with doctors' testimony on diabetes.

First of all, they can't possibly prove that medical treatment would have killed her.  Shit, I could have saved her - I've got enough insulin in my fridge to take care of a room full of diabetics!  By having doctors testify, they're going to quickly show that medical treatment would have saved her, not killed her.  Secondly, when I saw this headline, I reacted so strongly that I missed the aisle in the grocery store I needed to go in to continue shopping.  I was just completely dumbfounded!!  Lastly, what does the defense attorney have up his sleeve when referring to Kara's symptoms and comparing that to doctors' testimony on diabetes?  Is he going to try to suggest she wasn't diabetic?  If that is the case - 1) that can be disproved easily, and 2) besides the point what she died of - they let her health deteriorate for weeks, months even, and did nothing, even in the last hours of her life.  That is the point in this.  And clearly, I would be a biased juror in this case.

Today involved the first day of testimony.  The first person to testify was Dale Neumann's sister-in-law.  She stated that she went to police after Kara's death to urge them to investigate further because she feared for the safety and lives of the other children.  She felt that they were in danger because if they were sick or hurt they wouldn't receive treatment or help, and she also was afraid of a family suicide.  Apparently Dale told her that if they could do it all over again, they wouldn't change a thing.  Leilani's sister-in-law, Ariel Neff testified again - this time, however, she was less emotional....she was also the EX sister-in-law.  I suppose something like this could ruin a brand new marriage.  Can't say I blame her.  There was also testimony from a county dispatcher, police officer, two doctors, and two EMS workers.  They testified to Kara's emaciated condition and that she had a fruity scent to her breath.  The fruity scent is a classic sign for diabetes ketoacidosis.

It was also announced that Leilani Neumann will testify.  Something called the "Use Law" is going to be used, which means that whatever is said during her testimony won't be used against her during her sentencing in October.  (Damn)  It's expected that she'll testify tomorrow.  I suppose it was planned this way: her husband didn't take the stand in her trial because he had yet to stand trial and anything he said could be used against him, and now that she's through with hers, she's got virtually nothing left to lose.

One other interesting bit of information is that twice during trial, the courthouse fire alarms were activated.  There was no mention about increase in security for this trial - as was done for Leilani's trial - so I'm not sure if security was increased or not.  My theory, if security was not increased, is that someone did it to create chaos and try to prolong what would only take place after the building was secured.  If it was only false alarms, oh well.  Just seems too odd to be mere coincidence, ya know?

I'll keep updating as the week progresses.