Iraq:  the choices are drop the ball and run, OR clearly define the US mission and let the military do its job. 

 

Are you really trying to have a logical, civil discourse with such a loaded sentence?  I'm just asking because the language is REALLY slanted here. This is a very good example of False Dichotomy.

hahaha I just thought I'd throw the slant in the opposite direction from most of what I've seen on Mindsay and other communities.    Seriously though, I'm not convinced most people think beyond "Bring em home".  Then what?  I dread the upcoming year of bullsh*t for this very reason.  Everyone is touchy, and yet our only real hope is an ability to find some common ground which implies honest communication.  I do have a knack for over-simplification, though, don't you think?   

Slanting the other way doesn't make things even when you express you truly want a logical discourse. Anyhow, the same thing could be said for the "stay the course" crowd. What happens if we continue to "liberate" Iraqis who don't seem to appreciate our presence there with no clear cut plan? If you decide to help someone stand on their own two feet and that someone says, "thank you, you can go now," how much sense does it make to say,

"No, I'm not going until I'm satisfied you can make it on your own?" 

"Okay, what do you need to see as proof?"

"I don't know, but I'll know it when I see it, until then I'm staying."

Uh.... yeah, meanwhile you over-stay your welcome and the gratitude dwindles and becomes resentment. This is almost acceptable if it is done to our children.  The Iraqi people are not our children!

 

 Notice that we aren't fighting the Iraqi Army. We don't even know what their uniforms look like! There's no organized war in guerrilla warfare. We aren't fighting soldiers, we are fighting insurgents.  Insurgents are civillians.

OK ... and this means we should or shoudn't continue to help in the stabilization of whatever gov't exists?  Another perspective is that with all the animosity in the surrounding nations, perhaps Iraq is as good a place as any to simply maintain a presence ... ?  Should that "presence" be a UN peace-keeping force? Yeah, probably, but ... who is that?  We simply don't have all the information necessary to make the call, in my opinion.  I personally believe the media is guilty of "inciting" the population of the US by their sensationalist reporting.  It isn't an honest report ... usually, so except for those who have been there, (and most of those that I have spoken with want to go back and finish the job!) we don't really have a clear and balanced picture of what is going on in Iraq. 

WHEN will their new government be considered stable? Hell, our government isn't exactly stable. What's wrong with having a timeline? When you are aiding a country, doesn't it make sense to have a deadline? They had a general election and they elected a leader two years ago. If we were truly only trying to liberate Iraqis and help them stand on their own two feet, then I say it's time to go.  If we were truly only trying to liberate them, how would pulling out be cowardly? Didn't we just go in to help them free themselves from an oppressive regime and get a head start on democracy or did we go in to kick Iraqi butt? If we went in to kick some ass, I can see how leaving would be seen as craven, but our esteemed administration keeps telling us that it's Operation Iraqi Freedom.

 

Why is Iraq just as good a place as any to maintain a presence in the Middle East?  Why not Saudi Arabia? They are our "friends".  Bin Laden is a Saudi national and was exiled to Afghanistan.  Al Qaeda started in Saudi Arabia.  Most of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudi Arabian. Strangely enough, none of them were Iraqis.  I used to work for the Saudi-American Oil Company here in Houston, TX.  Guess whose name shows up on past Board of Directors lists...I'm just sayin...

No.  I do not believe there is any merit in having a deadline.  As I said, I don't you and I have adequte information to make that decision.  Moreoever, since it is a "war" situation, you and I shouldn't have viable information about what's going on there.  The fact that our illustrious media uses the events over there to sell news turns my stomach because most Americans BUY it without a second thought. 

 

Why Iraq?  Why not?  All the objections you have raised would be dealt with in a simple clarification of our goals in Iraq ... without a dealine.  I'm sure there is more than one objective and yes, they have been alluded to and guessed at, but they do need to be clearly stated and defined so at least more of us will understand. 

Like I said, are we liberating them or are we trying to bring them to heel?  I tell you what turns my stomach, the fact that most Americans bought into the war! Uh... if we were truly trying to stop Al Qaeda, then we wouldn't be in Iraq, we'd be in SAUDI ARABIA. But hey, the administration was brilliant in their assumption that most of the American people wouldn't know the damn difference. Talk about a smoke screen. There wasn't supposed to be a simple clarification of goals in Iraq, keeping things murky works to keep up the smoke screen.  "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain." If your car won't run because you need a new transmission, why would you buy a new battery?????

 

After 9/11 We Americans needed to feel like we were back in control. However, Al Qaeda is elusive and we didn't want to screw up our repore with the Saudis. We needed to punch something and Iraq was a good solution.  We never got Saddam. We had unfinished business there. We may as well beat the crap out of them.  It will show the world we are still Number 1 and it will give us Americans a feeling of control (kinda like the good ol "duck and cover" campaign during the Cold War.)  All they had to do was loosely link Saddam with Bin Laden and Al Qaeda and Voila!  You've got yourself a tangible enemy and a false feeling of security.

You gotta love DISPLACEMENT!

Gee, you are not a liberal....  You actually understand this.... 

shhhhhhhhhhh, please don't rat me out!  lol

all good questions.
so lets see~
Iraq: I say pull them out and bring them home, we no longer (if we ever did) belong there anyways.

Health care: Sucks! medicaid is a joke to most people. it hardly pays for anything anymore. you have to meet certain standards first. so, yha this is something that they really need to work on. most middle income families dont even qualify for medicaid and they cant afford regular health insurance.

Violence: there is no right way to fix this problem, they have taken the ability to discipline our children away from us. yet when our kids go out and kill somebody or commit a crime, it is our door they knock on, and us that they hold accountable.

Immigration: this is a touchy subject, one that has been argued over many times these past months here at mindsay. and im not sure what the right answer or solution there is for the problem. there should be laws set into place for those that wish to come across the border, but they should be better followed by the government that sets them in place as well. as for the ones already here? well, i guess that depends on why they are here. if they are working and supporting a family, then they deserve a chance to do right, if they are here in the judicial system, then they need to be deported back home. if we close our borders to one particular race, then we would have to do the same to everyone. that would mean, no more exchange students or people that come here for vacation....... oi.

<<Health care: Sucks! medicaid is a joke to most people. it hardly pays for anything anymore. you have to meet certain standards first. so, yha this is something that they really need to work on. most middle income families dont even qualify for medicaid and they cant afford regular health insurance. >>

 

True enough ... .my familiy is among those numbered in the uninsured, but I don't think it is the government's responsibility to insure me.  I think it is the responsibility of my employer ... This is why I think  the gov't should put pressure on employers to provide affordable health insurance.  I also am fully convinced that Americans in general, are far too "soft" when it comes to illness.  We shouldn't have to run to the DR for every sniffle or hemoroid!  If we have to pay for it out of our pocket, we think twice before going and this is a GOOD thing!  I also think Dr's prescribe meds on occasion too easily, or for the purpose of placating their restless patients, rather than to actually tend their condition. 

 

Violence: Who is "they"???  No one has legally taken away our parental rights ... at least completely.  we can still discipline them in our homes.  Most parents I see, however, apparently think that is too much trouble.  (I am NOT counting you among them ...   )  Parenting is hard work.  Discipline must be fair and consistent to acheive positive affects.  For any number of reasons, many kids are simply raised in the "system" ... daycares, headstart, school ... where discipline is strictly restricted and basically useless. 

Immigration: <<if we close our borders to one particular race, then we would have to do the same to everyone. that would mean, no more exchange students or people that come here for vacation....... oi.>>  Why would it mean this?  Closing the borders means to those who wish to MOVE here on a permenant basis, not just stop in for a week.  It would require, though, better defined legislation that is enforceable!

 

Thanks for participating ... and THINKING!