I found a site where they publish votes. http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists. You can go there and see who voted for what and see yea's and nay's grouped.

The newspapers ar strangely quiet about this debt-ceiling thing. I didn't know that the House no longer votes on these things, but just automated the process of raising it when needed. Too much to be bothered with, I suppose, controlling the national debt. The Senate hasn't automated this yet, so they have to vote.

I knew the debt was close to $6 trillion when Bush took office, but I didn't know that he'd been back to the till quietly 3 times to raise it another $3 trillion. And $2 trillion of that is for Iraq. How d'you feel about that, then? $2 trillion for this war? Every man, woman, and child in the US now owes something like $30,000 for their share of the US debt, and your individual bill for Iraq is $6,600. Got a spouse? That'll be $13,200 for the both of you. No family discounts on debt, please.

Get your head around that number for a second. $6,600. That's more than the state of California budgets to educate my child each year. That's the upper limit on my platinum card. Hey, that'll just be many years of payments of $100 per month for the war, please.

And this brings me to a decidedly uncomfortable place. Just what is my position on this war?

Well, obviously, I am against it. Everybody before me has made better arguments as to why this should be the case. I won't repeat them.

But here's a place where I hit discomfort.

Do I support the troops?

Most people I know are against the war, but feel hey, we gotta' support the troops. It's not their fault they're serving our country at precisely the moment it decided to engage in political insanity. It's not their fault they're pawns of the bureaucratic machine. It's not their fault they're doing something good, i.e., serving us, protecting and defending freedom, but just got sent to the wrong place.

Hmmmm..

If it were 1966 and we were having this talk, I'd be tempted to nod my head and agree. Yeah, it's not their fault. It's the government.

But it's 2006, and we had Vietnam, and we now all know that the US government doesn't think twice about sending poor and stupid boys off to die for unworthy causes. Before you explode with anger over that choice of adjectives, let me explain. My ex-husband served in Vietnam, as a soldier in the army. It took him all of five minutes to figure out that the vast majority of the army was made up of underclass and under-educated boys. He was in college, but had missed out on a class and that made him eligible for the draft, to his complete horror. He could go to OCS, but declined because he wanted to be out ASAP, and being a foot soldier got you out faster than being an officer. Once he was dropped into the war, he saw that there weren't any well-educated upper class soldiers running around out there in the jungle. He knew it was a poor boy's war, and since he was a poor boy from Macon, Ga., that made him quietly seethe inside.

This government has been carefully and quietly targeting black, Latin, and poor white youths who probably don't have much of a future without armed service. There are gorgeously shot ads on TV and in magazines depicting very handsome, martial young men talking to their mothers, making them proud of having a son who serves. This is a very manipulative machine we are working with, and who can blame these youths for signing up?

I can. Wow, this is going to be a very hard position to hold. But let me try it.

I can look troops in the eye, who've signed up since we began this war, and honestly ask them what they think they are doing. Don't they know they will be killing people, pulling people who may have done nothing out of their homes for interrogation? Don't they know they will be violating the rights of a people who are in so much dissaray that it's hardly likely they can organize anything at the moment, save a steady stream of hatred for their 'liberators'? Do they honestly believe they are being dispatched to do anything more than secure oil so that the US can continue to generate the vast majority of the world's pollution, and feed its taste for giant gas guzzling vehicles? Can you in any way translate this to making the world a better place for all people? Are you aware that there is no 'liberation' going on, and that this is an excuse to frankly colonialize another country outright?

Yeah, I think they do know that. The finer points may elude them. Philosophy may elude them. But I think at the end of the day they know they are going to shoot people, hurt people, and carry out an operation that has very little to do with giving a nation freedom. So if they sign up to go, it's not because they are protecting this country, defending our freedom, and all that. They know they are going over there to hurt people whose crime is having been born in the wrong spot in the world at this particular time. There aren't any illusions left about that now.

My friend is dating a soldier, a special forces guy, who just went. He enlisted last year. He could read the papers. He could figure out what was up. He's 30, hardly a kid. He enlisted. She's against the war. She feels conflicted. She supports him because he feels he's doing something great for his country.

What is that, exactly?

For those who enlisted, and then got stuck in this war before it was known that there was going to be a war, this is a terrible conundrum, and I wish we could send you home tomorrow. For the rest of the troops, eager to sign up and serve, eager to go overseas,  I submit that you will hold guns and you will pull triggers. You are accountable for your actions, as I am, as everyone is. You should take a good look at the powers you serve, and question what they are up to. This requires you become conscious. In the end, I think we are all accountable to be conscious of what we are doing, what it creates, and what it does to us and others.

This thought brings me to an even uglier thought. The willing troops who go over there, conscious or not, are the only shield keeping the government from forcing the rest of us to go. See, if everyone objected to what we are doing in Iraq, and no one signed up, well, it would be hard to fight a war short of importing 'expendable' people from another nation, or something equally horrendous. So what would the government do?

Force the rest of us to serve. It's happened, maybe not here, but in enough other places touting democracy and freedom and great destiny. I am thinking particularly here of Nazi Germany, which eventually started sending 14 year-olds to the front lines in Europe and Asia, in the name of spreading a great society infused with democracy and freedom.

Yeah, it sounds just as hollow on this page as it did to some suspecting Germans back then.

Those troops who march off to war with bright-eyed enthusiasm and zeal are keeping the government from instituting mandated conscription. Now hopefully, if they mandated us into service, we'd fight that like mad, and push back hard, and maybe even force those bastards in DC out into the streets and start over, get some people running this country who are actually conscious and humanitarian. So mull that one over. Forced conscription might lead to revolution, and maybe that's what is needed instead of this rampant apathy we all feel that keeps us from thinking, saying, and doing anything against this madness our country is engaged in.

But I still don't support the troops. I'm sorry, but there it is. We each of us have to own what we do, and why we do it, no matter where we are on the societal ladder. Sometimes, pushing back from the bottom forces required changes all the way to the top, and I think that's what's bloody-well needed now.
 
   

 


 
 
dogyo on
Re: Another decidedly unpopular stance....on Iraq, and troops
I am buddhist, which you know, and was when I was in the army for four years, which you did not know. I will not go into the long and boring why's and how's of being having the word Buddhist on ones dog tags, but I will say this...

 Though I do support the troops and not the war, what I support most is the ability for you to have a well thought out opinion and stance. One which is not necessarily uniquely yours but is unique to you (if that makes any sense?). I was and still am willing to die for the belief that we are all allowed our individuality and our own belief system. Because of this I never disparage anyones statements. >>>>Bowing to Sharon<<<<<

  That said.....

 

  I think I will ask for my 6600 back to reinvest in some other social project which does not involve oil.

 

 

sharonevolving on
Re: Another decidedly unpopular stance....on Iraq, and troops
So you are like Voltaire - willing to die to defend the right for us to say what we feel?

You're so gracious and disarming with the bowing Smiley I could get used to this.

What project would you like to see your 6600 fund?
dogyo on
Re: Another decidedly unpopular stance....on Iraq, and troops
Ahhhh.... voltaire....was he not the one with the mind meld and the death grip....no wait , that was a vulcan....

Yes, I support the right of freedom of speech above all others...in my humble opinion, without that right, all others (rights) are worthless.

 

 

I forget the name of the organization- however it is the one which purchases livestock for families in rural undeveloped countries...I believe in the "teach a man to fish" theory

mindspew on
Re: Another decidedly unpopular stance....on Iraq, and troops
That's a good distiction between the draft of the 60s and today's 'all-volunteer' army.

People who enlist in today's armed services know when they sign up that they are going to get paid to learn how to kill people. Then, most likely, the government will probably ask them to *use* their newly acquired skills.

It's up to the American people to oversee where, when and how those skills are deployed via the 'Commander-in-Chief.' In this, the American people have dropped the ball - badly.

2006 - the year The People began to take back the government???
sharonevolving on
Re: Another decidedly unpopular stance....on Iraq, and troops
God I hope so. We need to take it back NOW.
justjames on
Re: Another decidedly unpopular stance....on Iraq, and troops
This is a great post. I am against this war. We should get out now. I can't blame the troops for buying into the lies of this administration. The blame all goes to the Bushies who started this whole mess. 
sharonevolving on
Re: Another decidedly unpopular stance....on Iraq, and troops
Agreed - and thank you. However, I still hold that people must be conscious of what they are doing, and this applies to troops. My sense, is however, that the people who make good troops are the very ones who are discouraged from trying to understand the greater picture, on many levels.

 
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