mindsay
By the way, I choose the 'sea squirt who ate some bad plankton' theory....
I wish I could read the top right box on that comic.
which i grant you is sort of the same when it comes to large-scale evolution as well. not quite as much, though. small-scale evolution is painfully evident, but large-scale... it's still interesting to learn about every once in a while, though. so i see where you're coming from.
of salt. I'm not as much a literal 7-day creationist as I used to be. But
I don't like the idea of theistic evolution either. Micro-evolution is pretty
evident... but I like you think that macro-evolution is a stretch.
conclusive sense than others.
somewhat different.) I'm no longer convinced that the periods
were necessarily literal 24-hour days. But I do believe that
the periods were drastic miraculous "bam!" moments.
I prefer to argue more important theological issues, like Christ
and His atonement, personage, etc.
Some creation-science stuff does seem pretty hodgepodge. No one
seems to have any corner on the scientific truth.
so is that an invitation for a different theological debate? cuz i got a TON up my sleeve.
Most view Hell as the place where the unrighteous dead go. I share that view. It however was a place created for Satan and his angels. Another word would be Tartarus (Greek). The entire place of the dead is called Sheol (Hebrew) or Hades (Greek). The KJV translated both "Hell". Sheol/Hades was however divided into two parts one side Tartarus, the other, Abraham's Bosom. Tartarus for the wicked, Abraham's Bosom for God's Chosen. When Christ died, as the Apostle's Creed says: He "descended into Hell" this is vague, but not generally held to be Tartarus, but rather Abraham's bosom. He then "Led captivity captive" conquered death and led them into Heaven. Now when God's Elect are slain they no longer go into Abraham's Bosom--Sheol, but into Heaven and rest in Christ awaiting the Resurrection and New Jerusalem.
The wicked go to Tartarus awaiting their final Judgement in which they will be thrown into the Lake of Fire (likely a figurative sense rather than literal) along with Death/Hades/Sheol including Tartarus. What the "lake of fire" is like isn't really detailed. Most fundies just call that "Hell" too. Which makes for a very confusing rhetoric. They'll use "eternal hell" and refer to the "lake of fire"...but I don't really see where they get that. To me, Hell=Tartarus. I use the word Sheol in it's place as well.
Tartarus is mentioned only in 2 Peter 2:4. This verse reads, “For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to Tartarus, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment…” Obviously, just from reading the verse, we see Tartarus as a place of holding until the time of judgment, not equivalent to our idea of hell, as a place of eternal shame and suffering. (Vine, 212-213) Instead of a lake of fire, Tartarus is compared to “gloomy dungeons” in the NIV Bible; to “pits of deepest darkness” in the NRSV; to “chains of darkness” in the NKJV. Obviously, we didn’t get our idea of hell from the Greek Tartarus.
i think you mean gehenna.
i have this friend who isn't a christian, whom i love dearly. if i could never look her in the eye and say, "go to hell," how can god? what kind of a god is so weak that s/he can only save those who believe in god?
God gives us a means by which we can receive salvation. We are NOT entitled to receive it. We are born into this world damned. We're not entitled anything good here or afterward. So whoever receives salvation receives it out of God's pleasure.
It pleased God to see His Son upon the Cross... I assume you don't disbelieve that happened right?
And anyway, since you don't believe in Hell, what do you believe Jesus died for?
They think that your early ending
Was all wrong
For the most part, they're right
But look how they all got strong
That's why I say, "Hey, man, nice shot
A good shot, man"
jesus died for nothing as much as mlkj or gandhi died for nothing. it's not his death but his life that we should be focusing on. my problem is the obsession with the afterlife in the first place, when we're surrounded by mandates daily.
i have a comic at home that someone at my college drew. it shows a guy freaking out about y2k when behind him, there's someone about to jump of a ledge, someone digging in the trash for their next meal, someone shooting up, a very young, very pregnant girl, etc. i think that if you replace the little "y2k" thought-bubble with "hell," you get the general feeling of popular christianity.
then Christianity is the most stupid ignorant piece of
shit-trash that ever existed.
Christ's Resurrection, and Christ's Return" what is it
about?
and i hate getting defensive or whatever, but, um... i'd appreciate it if you didn't call my religion a "stupid ignorant piece of shit-trash." that wounded.
What message that "we're all in this together."?
Where are you finding that idea? Just curious.
the fact that he ate with tax collectors and prostitutes. that he excused the woman caught in adultery. that he wanted to fill the woman at the well. that he invited zaccheus over for dinner. that he wanted desperately to help nicodemus. that he praised the widow's mite. that he wept for lazarus. it's all part of the incredible human story that he didn't just live through, but celebrated deeply. his compassion was unmeasurable. i don't see his conversation with the woman caught in adultery to be mercy, as many seem to. i see it as... brotherhood. he loved with his whole being. that's what it means that "we're all in this together."
How could Christ Jesus excuse sin if He was not God?
the Bible literally. But most of it you have to.
I don't see how you get that interpretation from even
a non-literal view of the Bible. I don't see where
you're observing all this from Jesus and other people.
The Scriptures seem to be pretty clear to say that
Jesus is LORD and He perished on the cross and was
physically brought up from the grave. I think that to
believe in some sort of metaphoric resurrection you have
to disregard all of the Gospels' accounts and every single solitary
bit of Paul's entire ministry.
do me a favor and read one of the synoptic gospels in one sitting. try to think of how to summarize what jesus was saying to someone who's never read it before.
written AFTER the epistles. The epistles were received
first by the churches.
So if Paul was a well-educated ass-- you have to wonder
what the other Saints were. I wonder who wrote those
Gospel accounts... certainly not Christ the Lord
Himself! So you're taking it on a man's word what
Jesus said.
And the synoptic gospels aren't portraying the message
that you are saying. Perhaps you should read Mark
again... It is about repenting and turning toward God,
that Jesus IS indeed the Christ and must perish and be
raised from the grave. And Mark does go on to say that
it DID happen. It is about having faith in that.
But anything you speak of taking literally the account of Noah and a world-wide flood in geologically recent history simply isn't backed up with any facts. Perhaps at the end of the last ice age an ice damn gave way and caused a regional flood in the Mediterrarean region of Eurasia, but that's about it, and the damage was localized and also very sudden (no raining for 40 days or nonsense like that). If you want to look up the prevelance of other sudden floods, look at the Scablands in Washington state for an interesting geological study.
said of different scientific theories like "snowball earth". It's not mainstream, but
that doesn't mean that people pull it out of the air or base it entirely on a cultural
legend or religious account.
evolution isn't even promoted to a "law" in science. it's a theory, and is stated as such.
