politics
Yes!
Here's a reply to one of the only people here who get what I'm trying to say.
They like to argue just for the sake that they have nothing more productive to do (I mean really, who has all day to argue online?) While they do make some valid points, they've also completely missed the idea of what Mr. Andrew Austin was trying to say.
Please enlighten us on what we have missed on this Austin/perennialartist idea.
"Yes" really doesn't convey much meaning as far as understanding this apparently sophisticated idea.
"Yes" really doesn't convey much meaning as far as understanding this apparently sophisticated idea.
I'm thinking about refusing to argue with these "people" until they stop the straw-man arguments and personal attacks.
Isn't it funny that some of those others are using the exact same argument that you just outlined as illogical?
The entire premise of Andrew Austins' argument is centered around victimization and supporting a victim mentality.
- because I am forced to. - by misfortune of birth.
- They had no choice.
- I have no choice
- I am forced to contribute
It's an adolescent, specious and idealistic response to something which cannot be rationally justified. It isn't that he just "lives" in a capitalist society that he is being called on the table for. It is the fact that he is unable to illustrate through his actions what he opposes ideologically.Thousands of people are living alternative lifestyles, off-the-grid, detached from the system and doing much more than "surviving". Somehow they had the strength and character to act upon their beliefs. All Austin is doing is whining "poor me". Where is the strength of character in that?
Character over logic... sounds like a onewalrus joint
Henny Youngman = one-liners = Andreux
Hey, where's my onewalrus-joint?
Hey, where's my onewalrus-joint?
don't be upset that I can cut with so few words 
I have on my computer a script I wrote called "mission impossible destruction". I deletes all your one-liners immediately after reading so they are only one-time-one-liners.
LOL what!!
Just got an email from Andrew Austin. As expected, he is a pedantic sycophant expert in sisyphean arguments. In other words he's a big-mouth, know-it-all like me. No wonder I can't stomach him.
Oh, I invited him over here. Let's see if he is man enough to drop in an voice more of his pablum.
pablo, you are mad buddy lol
Don't you think it's the next logical step here? It's time for the man whose words are being quoted to come and defend them himself instead of relying on one of his acolytes.
Well, here's my suggestion to you: Grow up a bit more, get married, have a family, and then inform your wife and children that capitalism stinks, they're not getting anything from you that requires money, and--when you're good and divorced (and broke)--you can go your way...if you can afford to. Idealists are fun to watch as they run headlong into Real Life. It usually wakes them up.
What is idealistic is interchanging the two concepts of currency and an economic system, when, in fact, they can be nearly independent from one another.
Do you pay taxes?
Oh boy..
Was thinkin' the same thing.
Projecting catastrophically ?
They are just two small exasperated words, Pablo -- don't read too much into it.
That two people could be thinking "Oh boy" at the same time... now that's just plain uncanny and spooky.
Yes and No. I pay all consumption and state taxes for essential food and services. Since I'm below the poverty line, tho, I have yet to pay any taxes on my income.
I understand. However, if you pay bills for services you're paying taxes into the capitalistic marketplace. So, I take it that you consider all the services needed for internet/computer as essential? Curious. I don't see anywhere where Andrew Austin, or you give examples of actions being taken to wean ones self away from the oppression of capitalism. I don't see the words bearing the fruit which would elevate it to the status of conscientious objection.
“An idealist is one who helps the other fellow to make a profit”
Henry Ford
“An idealist is one who helps the other fellow to make a profit”
Henry Ford
Paying "taxes" into a capitalistic marketplace is a misnomer. My position on the capitalist system is independent and separate, regardless of where my income ends up.
How can the relationship between taxes, your income and capitalism be a misnomer when they are inextricably tied? This would make your "position" on capitalism poetry.
It's like saying you're opposed to digging holes, but will continue to buy shovels and contribute to a system which helps all people buy more shovels to dig more holes.
It's like saying you're opposed to digging holes, but will continue to buy shovels and contribute to a system which helps all people buy more shovels to dig more holes.
Nice shirt.
The analogy is false. The assumption you've given is that it's completely voluntary and in no way affects my economic freedom so much that my survival is dependent on buying shovels and digging holes. Most of us who live under capitalism in the world have extremely little economic freedom as their meager wages are used to pay for things necessary for survival. Similar to prostitution or slavery, those dependent on their wages must continually sell their bodies and labor to survive, thus giving justification to the term "wage slave."
The analogy is false. The assumption you've given is that it's completely voluntary and in no way affects my economic freedom so much that my survival is dependent on buying shovels and digging holes. Most of us who live under capitalism in the world have extremely little economic freedom as their meager wages are used to pay for things necessary for survival. Similar to prostitution or slavery, those dependent on their wages must continually sell their bodies and labor to survive, thus giving justification to the term "wage slave."
One of our natural rights is the right to our labor and the wages from labor. It is then a violation of our natural rights for anyone, including any government, to forcibly take away our wages. When government taxes wages, in effect you have labored for the government by force, and involuntary servitude was also outlawed in the USA by the 13th Amendment.
Sorry, bruh, but I don't believe in natural rights. Natural rights ARE extremely idealistic. This is assuming idealism is the enemy here. Rights only exist as a declaration from the top power in a society, or in this country, a State. If the top power in a society or State lies in the hands of religious leaders, then theocratic rule ensues. If the top power lies the voluntary cooperation of collected individuals, that resembles a libertarian (European definition) federation.
"...I have no choice under capitalism but to buy food and medicine, pay rent, and so forth."
Really? Seriously? Someone held a gun to his and your head to consume electricity, buy a computer, buy an ISP, etc., all of which contribute to the system of capitalism? It's romantic to be idealistic, but it's empty. "...no choice..." amounts to nothing less than an excuse and destroys the entire argument. Not supporting something means taking any and all actions to illustrate the sincerity of the words thus giving them substance. Words without action are non-substantive, impotent idealism.
Really? Seriously? Someone held a gun to his and your head to consume electricity, buy a computer, buy an ISP, etc., all of which contribute to the system of capitalism? It's romantic to be idealistic, but it's empty. "...no choice..." amounts to nothing less than an excuse and destroys the entire argument. Not supporting something means taking any and all actions to illustrate the sincerity of the words thus giving them substance. Words without action are non-substantive, impotent idealism.
You are "forced" to support capitalism? By whom? Just as important as the freedom to support what you like, you have the freedom to NOT support just as many things. First thing I note is, you have voluntarily done two things--make that three--to make your point to us, all of which make you hypocritical: 1) You bought a computer; 2) you subscribed to an ISP; and 3) you went to Mindsay, a capitalist enterprise, to make your anti-capitalist thoughts known to us. If any one of those freely-made choices had not been made by you, we would not know of your attitude. But you had a goal in mind (to apprise us of how you hate capitalism), and decided to avail yourself of that very system to do so. Maybe it's just me, but somehow I don't believe you very much.
Now, as I say, you can live completely apart from capitalism if you really think it's no good. Millions of people, all around the world, are doing so at this very hour. Nothing is stopping you from becoming numbered among them. Much of the population of an entire continent (Africa) is living apart from capitalism this afternoon. There are vast stretches of geography the world over, U.S. included, where you can provide for your vital needs (food and shelter) without any need for currency or barter.
I saw a show the other night where a man decided to see if he could survive in the Canadian wild for 3 months alone. He found out fast--within a day or two--it wouldn't be easy. Not impossible, mind you, just challenging. But he wasn't a trained survivalist, either. At any rate, I would invite you to travel (by means of free enterprise, sorry) to some location of your choice with whatever provisions you think you need, and give it the old college try. Who knows? Maybe we're all crazy here and could live better in the woods by killing our own food, making our own fires, building our own shelters, seeing to our own needs. But the experience of man has been, by in large, that others who are better at some things than we are can be persuaded, through the capitalist system, to provide them for us--while we trade our skills to them, again, for a price. If that doesn't make sense to you, try alternatives for a few years and get back to us. In the meantime, sell your computer, drop the ISP service and quit your job--at a business, I assume. Best of luck.
Everyone born into the United States is forced into the capitalist system. Similarly if you were born into an Islamic Republic, you would be forced into Islamic law.
Buying a computer, etc.* all the way to getting onto Mindsay has nothing to do with my intentions of what economic system I'm supporting. By using my money to do these things I'm intentionally supporting commerce and technology, two things completely separate from capitalism. Except, of course, that capitalism is antagonistic to technology. If we're going to bring up voluntary actions that "support" capitalism, I will say this in reference to Austin's comment about slavery and what we support: Being forced into wage slavery is separate from what we, as individuals, choose to support at heart.
*I count the internet as a near-necessity in the 21st century. Sorry if you don't agree, but i'm not going to argue about it.
Buying a computer, etc.* all the way to getting onto Mindsay has nothing to do with my intentions of what economic system I'm supporting. By using my money to do these things I'm intentionally supporting commerce and technology, two things completely separate from capitalism. Except, of course, that capitalism is antagonistic to technology. If we're going to bring up voluntary actions that "support" capitalism, I will say this in reference to Austin's comment about slavery and what we support: Being forced into wage slavery is separate from what we, as individuals, choose to support at heart.
*I count the internet as a near-necessity in the 21st century. Sorry if you don't agree, but i'm not going to argue about it.
Commerce is separate from Capitalism. Yes, and the Easter Bunny hides candy.
Capitalism is antagonistic to technology. Yes, and Santa Clause brings presents.
Forced into wage slavery. Yes, and internet slavery too.
You might consider doing some research on how the free-market economy under capitalism works. Every statement you make displays a complete lack of understanding on the subject.
Capitalism is antagonistic to technology. Yes, and Santa Clause brings presents.
Forced into wage slavery. Yes, and internet slavery too.
You might consider doing some research on how the free-market economy under capitalism works. Every statement you make displays a complete lack of understanding on the subject.
I'm more interested in debt slavery than wage slavery. We Americans have willingly sold our souls to credit card companies and banks. Well, most of us have.
That's a fact Mike. And five will get you ten that perennialartist is willingly participating in the credit/debt scheme by owning at least one credit card... the ultimate participation in the capitalist economy.
Too many people want something for nothing; that's the real American dream these days.
It's easier than living a prudent lifestyle, easier than being resourceful, productive and inventive in ways to work within/without/around the system. It's easier just to cry foul and call the whole thing unjust, criminal and inescapable and all the while reaping all the benefits that it entitles you to. I'm still waiting for an honest response to my credit card question.
The reason I don't have a credit card, and have purchased older vehicles and equipment that I could pay for outright instead of taking out loans for, is simple: so long as you're making payments on something, you really don't own it. You're effectively leasing it until said payments are completed. Applying the same reasoning to property taxes, and no one in this country owns the real estate they hold a deed to.
Reckless use of unsecured credit allows people to consume more than they produce, or are capable of producing, and thus violates sound personal economics.
Reckless use of unsecured credit allows people to consume more than they produce, or are capable of producing, and thus violates sound personal economics.
For convenience I have a debit card. Each month I load as much on it as I know I need to pay bills online. In 52-years I have never bought at thing with credit or taken out a loan.
On the property taxes, I expounded on that recently addressing both the actual absence of ownership, as you point out, and the outright lies local governments claim in their budgets for property taxes collected. Of course they want to raise them again soon to compensate for their "teenager with a pocket full of money" practice of managing the budget.
On the property taxes, I expounded on that recently addressing both the actual absence of ownership, as you point out, and the outright lies local governments claim in their budgets for property taxes collected. Of course they want to raise them again soon to compensate for their "teenager with a pocket full of money" practice of managing the budget.
We use a debit card for gas and online/over-the-phone transactions, but that's linked directly to the checking account, and is really a completely different creature than a credit card.
Correct. Comparing the two would as nutty as saying "By using my money to do these things I'm intentionally supporting commerce and technology, two things completely separate from capitalism." lol
Last I checked, one of the problems with capitalism was its rampant, rapid expansion of technological applications at the expense of labor and the environment. Supporting technological progress is supporting capitalism, for the most part.
Hamburger has no relation to cows. I hate hamburger and hamburgers, but love cows. May I have fries with my hamburger please. No... no... please don't force me to eat that hamburger. Oh... poor me... I was born into this evil society where you are forced to eat hamburgers, live in a house with working electricity and plumbing/heating, have ready access to all essential services and food. Help, help I'm being punished and oppressed by "the man".
If I didn't know you better, I'd think there were traces of sarcasm, condescension, and mocking in you tone.
Since I am famous only unto myself, I will quote myself:
"That's the way I roll . Wrong is my style. Errors are my tools. Mishap is my palette. Faux pas are as wine. SNAFU = bliss"
Ha... take that Shakespeare!
"That's the way I roll . Wrong is my style. Errors are my tools. Mishap is my palette. Faux pas are as wine. SNAFU = bliss"
Ha... take that Shakespeare!
Islamic law is religious law. Capitalism is an economic system, not a law. There is no "similarly".
I never used Islamic law in the economic context
Talk to some homeless people. You'll eventually run into a few who really don't support capitalism. I spent a day with a man who made the choice to be homeless. He was one of the smartest people I've ever met. And he decided to be homeless because of his belief system.
I can see that you don't agree with capitalism. But as others here have said, you certainly support it.
I can see that you don't agree with capitalism. But as others here have said, you certainly support it.
One of the most ironic things about capitalism is that the capitalist will sell you the rope to hang himself with. Actually they will give you the money to make a movie that makes them look bad, if they believe they can make money off it.
Nice "argument"
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