choice
I think it's important to stand up to things that don't matter to us. Because they really do if you think about us as a human race.
I just don't understand. Why ban gays getting married? Cause the Bible says so? Separate between church and state. The Bible also says we shouldn't eat lobster. Nobody's forcing anyone to do anything but to accept love and tolerance.
The first victory will probably come in a state where we least expect it.
I just don't understand. Why ban gays getting married? Cause the Bible says so? Separate between church and state. The Bible also says we shouldn't eat lobster. Nobody's forcing anyone to do anything but to accept love and tolerance.
The first victory will probably come in a state where we least expect it.
that was Iowa..
and I feel that it will soon be repealed there too
and I feel that it will soon be repealed there too
I would LOVE to see Maine make lobster illegal. 
-- S
-- S
haha
LOL! Shiny!
Yep, right is right and equality is right!
The day we truly separate church and state is the day we will truly begin to progress.
The day we truly separate church and state is the day we will truly begin to progress.
voted..
The part I find so ironic/moronic, is that the very people who voted away these "freedoms" are generally the first people to "wave the flag and remind others" that FREEDOM(s) are what we "died for" in WWII..
apparently as a tax-paying gay man, I have more freedom in Argentina..
The part I find so ironic/moronic, is that the very people who voted away these "freedoms" are generally the first people to "wave the flag and remind others" that FREEDOM(s) are what we "died for" in WWII..
apparently as a tax-paying gay man, I have more freedom in Argentina..
Have you read about the latest accounts in Caracas, Venezuela? It sounds horrifying...
http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=49132
-- S
http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=49132
-- S
this happens here too..
just not on the same scale..
yea..so much for freedom..
just not on the same scale..
yea..so much for freedom..
That is so true!!!
But you must stay and keep up the fight! We sure don't want to lose you to Argentina!
As a straight woman let me say I believe you should have every right every other American has and I have and will continue to fight to help you achieve those freedoms! And there are many like me who love and accept you for you are and would not change you if we could!
So, lets keep marching and making noise till we "get er done"!
But you must stay and keep up the fight! We sure don't want to lose you to Argentina!
As a straight woman let me say I believe you should have every right every other American has and I have and will continue to fight to help you achieve those freedoms! And there are many like me who love and accept you for you are and would not change you if we could!
So, lets keep marching and making noise till we "get er done"!
not Argentina..but Canada..
and I've been marching and making noise for nearly 30 years now..not gonna make any difference until the Supreme Court has its final say over this..
and after losing (twice) everything I had together with my partners due to lack of protections when they died, this issue has propelled me to take the LSAT next year
and a degree in Administrative/Constitutional Law to follow..
no..my fight will now take a new route
and I've been marching and making noise for nearly 30 years now..not gonna make any difference until the Supreme Court has its final say over this..
and after losing (twice) everything I had together with my partners due to lack of protections when they died, this issue has propelled me to take the LSAT next year
and a degree in Administrative/Constitutional Law to follow..
no..my fight will now take a new route
Canada beats the US in many ways. From rights of marriage to universal health. Hold on...I'm going with ya! <smile>
I voted for this but it didn't show up. Just know that I did 
Thanks Eddie!
A problem with democracy is society's prejudices get represented... but if it weren't the people's prejudices it'd be one person's, whether that's better or worse depends.
In a free society, we should be guided by equality. Fair and equal treatment for all of our citizens regardless of race, religion or sexual orientation. To deny those freedoms that heterosexual men and women receive to the GLBT community is an outrage to those who truly believe that all are created equal.
Religion is the number one cause of prejudiced. Religion must change or die.
Religion is the number one cause of prejudiced. Religion must change or die.
One freedom comes at the expense of another -freedom of sexuality vs freedom of religion, I agree though - the freedom to have prejudiced religion is the one that should go/change, they are the problem, but it'll take time. Wherever there's laws and authority (church included), there can never be complete freedom, generally some laws (not this one) provide protection from freedom being taken by others (i.e. gangs) - but they also get corrupted, as you know.
The people are choosing not to have a free/fair socieity - democracy gives them that power - shows just how dangerous popular opinion can be.
The people are choosing not to have a free/fair socieity - democracy gives them that power - shows just how dangerous popular opinion can be.
They're so afraid that gays are going to pervert society,. I wonder if they ever read the news.
Men raping their daughters, Sunday school teachers raping their students , kiddie porn, adult porn etc...
Heterosexual certainly does not mean perverted though they would like to think so.
Hypocrites...they world is full of hypocrites
Men raping their daughters, Sunday school teachers raping their students , kiddie porn, adult porn etc...
Heterosexual certainly does not mean perverted though they would like to think so.
Hypocrites...they world is full of hypocrites
They need to face up to what the real the real threats are... it's like they have wrong priorities, a false sense of security in the wrong people, fear of people and actions they shouldn't, overreation. - It'll either take something forceful and terrible to happen to them to shock them into thinking or very careful debate - gentle enough that they're willing to read, but firm uncompromising points they cannot argue against (or force them into conceding something). People almost set themselves up for learn things the hard way, with pain to all, yet we try to find another way, but it's difficult.
I love this kind of "thought" process. A "hypocrite" is someone who condemns in others that which they themselves practice. If a child rapist or watcher of kiddie porn decried homosexuality as "perverted", I would agree with you that it's hypocrisy. But what bums you out is anyone calling homosexual acts "perverted" when it's really just a matter of their including more in the word "perverted" than you do. There's nothing hypocritical about that. Just because acts of perversion exist among some heterosexuals doesn't mean perversion can't be an apt description of homosexual activity. If a politician decries a corrupt businessman, it doesn't make him a hypocrite just because crooked politicians exist. The businessman is still corrupt. Only if that particular politician is dirty does his accusation make him hypocritical.
When I was a kid, everyone knew not to venture too near old man Martin's house because he was a "pervert." I didn't know what that meant exactly, but I knew it had something to do with Martin having his pants down around his ankles at inappropriate times. There wasn't a lot of debate about it, and we didn't "reach out" to him to understand his "feelings." We stayed away from him. Then my friend, Charlie, had a "funny uncle Sean." We knew something wasn't quite right with Sean because of how he seemed to relate to other men he knew. He treated them like other men would treat a girlfriend...standing very close, stroking an arm, pecking them on the cheek. Men just didn't do that. The adults were not a lot more sympathetic, either. Most people considered Martin and Sean to be "perverted" people; one was probably a child molester (or was trying to be), the other a garden variety gay man (no pun intended).
Years later, the Martins of the world are still "perverts", but somehow the Seans have convinced a lot of people, through intimidation, shouting, legislation, and an educational system that has totally lost its moral bearings, that their sexual tendencies are no more than just another color of the rainbow. Those who have bought into that are deceived. Not bad people, but deceived nonetheless.
Well, I'm sorry to tell you that the average person still harbors the suspicion that, somewhere along the line, one of Sean's circuits never quite got in sync like they were supposed to, and that's why any state has yet to vote to approve of two GUYS marrying each other. It's not about the smokescreen called "equality." If it was, then a father should be able to marry his adult daughter--or son, for that matter...maybe BOTH of them. When Woody Allen married his stepdaughter, most people though that was twisted, even though--except for having married her mother--the two were not related in any way. I agree with the majority there. Sometimes one's first impression is correct: it was just wrong.
Gays may eventually win over a state or two. But at this point, the "civil rights" ploy isn't fooling very many of us. And don't tell me I'm being hateful. That's worn out its effectiveness, too. I'm just being honest with you. If I lied to you, THAT would be from hatred.
Any why is two consenting adults wanting to be together and committing their lives together wrong to you? Is it because the bible tells you so? Is it because it's not "normal" or against "nature"?
If the bible is your gauge for right and wrong then you should read your bible closely. It is a book about men written by men and it's full of errors , inconsistencies fables and down right lies.
If nature is your guide, then you should study nature. Homosexuality is practiced by all animals and is especially prevalent in King penguins.
I say many heterosexuals are hypocrites because they believe their form of love making (what ever it may be) is the "right way. And they believe their choice of "mate" is the only right choice. Well, it may be right for them but not for someone else and everyone should have the right to choice their spouse...that...is true freedom.
I remember when I was young we could date or marry a black person it was "illegal" because some idiots thought it was wrong. That stupid law was around till 1967!
Why can't some people see that all people just want to be happy, to find love and security? Why are "homo phobics" so afraid? I tell you why, because they won't take the time to really get to know gay people. I know some GLBT couples that are the best couples and parents you have ever seen. Sure their are some twisted gays, but their are more than plenty twisted heterosexuals too. I used to clean house for a doctor who seemed to be the most normal, mild mannered guy with a lovly wife and 3 beautiful children. Turns out, he was bonkin his dog on the side!! This guy was totally anti -gay yet he was doin his dog!
And how do you know what the "average person" thinks? I see the times a changing my friend. As the bible loses it's evil grasp upon the country minds are changing. One of these days the truth about the book will be revealed and truth and reason will take over. Then freedom will reign.
Oh, I do hope someday your civil rights are violated. as a woman who rights have been denied in the past, I know how it feels. Me thinks you need a taste of your own medicine. I don't think your hateful...I think your fearful and people do and say stupid things when they're afraid.
Many people are afraid of blacks...how rediculous...but their numbers are huge. Look at all the nuts shakin in their boots because there is a black man in the white house. In my book, George Bush was the scariest president we ever had and he brought us to our knees!
The whole point is you will never stop the GLBT community they have been and always will be around. What you want to deny them is the freedom to marry. They're going to be together wether their allowed to marry or not...so why not let them?
If the bible is your gauge for right and wrong then you should read your bible closely. It is a book about men written by men and it's full of errors , inconsistencies fables and down right lies.
If nature is your guide, then you should study nature. Homosexuality is practiced by all animals and is especially prevalent in King penguins.
I say many heterosexuals are hypocrites because they believe their form of love making (what ever it may be) is the "right way. And they believe their choice of "mate" is the only right choice. Well, it may be right for them but not for someone else and everyone should have the right to choice their spouse...that...is true freedom.
I remember when I was young we could date or marry a black person it was "illegal" because some idiots thought it was wrong. That stupid law was around till 1967!
Why can't some people see that all people just want to be happy, to find love and security? Why are "homo phobics" so afraid? I tell you why, because they won't take the time to really get to know gay people. I know some GLBT couples that are the best couples and parents you have ever seen. Sure their are some twisted gays, but their are more than plenty twisted heterosexuals too. I used to clean house for a doctor who seemed to be the most normal, mild mannered guy with a lovly wife and 3 beautiful children. Turns out, he was bonkin his dog on the side!! This guy was totally anti -gay yet he was doin his dog!
And how do you know what the "average person" thinks? I see the times a changing my friend. As the bible loses it's evil grasp upon the country minds are changing. One of these days the truth about the book will be revealed and truth and reason will take over. Then freedom will reign.
Oh, I do hope someday your civil rights are violated. as a woman who rights have been denied in the past, I know how it feels. Me thinks you need a taste of your own medicine. I don't think your hateful...I think your fearful and people do and say stupid things when they're afraid.
Many people are afraid of blacks...how rediculous...but their numbers are huge. Look at all the nuts shakin in their boots because there is a black man in the white house. In my book, George Bush was the scariest president we ever had and he brought us to our knees!
The whole point is you will never stop the GLBT community they have been and always will be around. What you want to deny them is the freedom to marry. They're going to be together wether their allowed to marry or not...so why not let them?
You may try to justify gay marriage all day long with appeals to forms of discrimination in days gone by, or because two people (why limit it to two?) "love" each other, or it's a civil rights matter, or whatever. But, as I posted elsewhere on this site, you're not done yet. You still have to explain why--assuming you're arguments hold--several people can't marry as a group, why a parent and an adult child can't marry, why I can't marry someone already married, etc....let's just change the laws on those choices, too. Alright with you if any of that goes?
You are justifying that which the vast majority of people find wrong and not in the best interest of society, never mind that the overall experience of human beings since time began has been that one man and one woman is the worst possible formula for "family" that has ever been found, except for all the other ones.
And you brought up the Bible, not me. That's a whole other discussion.
I don't have to justify it. Two consenting should have the right to marry if they choose to make that commitment.
As for people marring their children, well in times past that was an ok thing. I couldn't imagine doing it but then again everything is not about me now is it?
Gay people should have the right to marry their partner and get the same benefits as any other married couple. Gay people make good parents and good neighbors.
Which would you prefer: a married heterosexual couple in which the male beats the female regularly or a loving married gay couple living next door to you? Funny how one is accepted in our society but the other is not.
Who should have the right to define marriage? What is fair?
And I have no problem with polygamy. Right now I could use another husband , the one I have is laid off. What if he wanted another wife? Great, someone to help clean this house.
Listen, marriage is a personal thing and should only be the business of those people involved. The divorce rates among heterosexual couples are staggering, so it's a cinch marriage is not considered a "sacred institution".
In many countries the things you site such as polygamy, marrying your relatives are perfectly acceptable. Does it make us any better because we don't except those things? Does it make us a better or stronger country by denying gays their freedom to chose whom the marry?
Do some research on countries which allow gay marriage. Denmark for example allows a registered partnership and the people there are among the happiest in the world.
Progressive countries seem to be doing well, America needs to progress.
As for people marring their children, well in times past that was an ok thing. I couldn't imagine doing it but then again everything is not about me now is it?
Gay people should have the right to marry their partner and get the same benefits as any other married couple. Gay people make good parents and good neighbors.
Which would you prefer: a married heterosexual couple in which the male beats the female regularly or a loving married gay couple living next door to you? Funny how one is accepted in our society but the other is not.
Who should have the right to define marriage? What is fair?
And I have no problem with polygamy. Right now I could use another husband , the one I have is laid off. What if he wanted another wife? Great, someone to help clean this house.
Listen, marriage is a personal thing and should only be the business of those people involved. The divorce rates among heterosexual couples are staggering, so it's a cinch marriage is not considered a "sacred institution".
In many countries the things you site such as polygamy, marrying your relatives are perfectly acceptable. Does it make us any better because we don't except those things? Does it make us a better or stronger country by denying gays their freedom to chose whom the marry?
Do some research on countries which allow gay marriage. Denmark for example allows a registered partnership and the people there are among the happiest in the world.
Progressive countries seem to be doing well, America needs to progress.
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