If I'm old enough to vote, and old enough to be forced to register for selective service, I damn well should be old enough to buy a beer.  A huge percentage of college students drink, it's a well known fact.  I certainly do, and I'm definitely not of legal age.  By making it legal to have, the sweet taste of the forbidden is removed.  Perhaps this will allow young people to learn to drink responsibly (although this should be taught at home), instead of drinking until they black out simple because alcohol is available for once.

The taste of the forbidden has been disproven time and again as a valid argument.
What other unproven ideas do you have?

What is proven is this, When the age is lowered, more young people drink IRRESPONSIBLY....

You're right.  Start the legislation immediately.  We'll call it the "Inebriated Brandre Bill" and it's going to raise the legal drinking age to 60.  As soon as that goes into law hardly anyone will drink irresponsibly, if at all.

well, I can tell people not to drink and not be a hypocrite. Can you?

I can not tell people how to or how they should live their lives.  Can you?

I can based on how their actions impact others. If they are going to kill or maim others by their actions, yes.

Your problem is simply the old liberal mantra - in the 60's they were for free speech when it allowed filthy speech. Now they are against free speech when it allows legitimate questioning of their idiocy and mental illness.

I can tell someone they cannot steal, be it a street kid with a gun at a convenience store of a corporate head who is manipulating the stock... (Ken Lay, meet prison...)

Hey, if you're constipated, try pooping.  You'll feel better afterward... less cranky and irritable.

Is this the best you can offer? I care about people, Apparently you care for nobody but yourself. What an idiot..

I'm sorry I disappointed you.  I guess I can't go off on random tangents like you can.  It's also really too bad that no one can live up to your enlightened standards.  I feel sorry for those (if any) who are close to you seeing as how you always resort to mental abuse to those who aren't up to your standards.

Maybe, away from the internet, you're an upstanding guy who is 180˚ different from here... loving, caring, compassionate and non-judgmental, etc.  I hope so.  That guy would be a boon to society.  But I (we - the MindSay community) don't know that guy.

I apparently don't live up to your standards, of accepting what is when it is wrong rather than what should be.

Where is your proof that this has been disproven. Until you show me, your argument is in theory just as invalid as mine.  Alcohol has become so fundamentally wrong in our country that parents are afraid to let their children even taste it for fear or being arrested while their children are taken away to foster homes. I certainly know that mine were.

Every single person I know who was exposed to alcohol at a younger age and in a safe environment is much more able to make intelligent and responsible decisions when it comes to alcohol consumption.  This is because it's no longer something 'special'.  A perfect example of this would be the youth of Europe.

However, I'm sure you'll just cite some special cases, about alcoholics and children in dire need of attention or the like as a rebuttal to this. Because I'm sure you're just as stubborn as you are uninformed.

There should be no drinking age.
I was raised and allowed to have a sip of wine at age five,
 it was taught to us kids that responsibility is all about your actions
  Being able to drink wont solve problems.
 So many people have there heads up there ass to try to believe that,
 if they control peoples actions that will solve the problem ....it never works...
Education is what works
 Being taught at a young age responsibility is the true solution
 Just look at the stupidity of the drug war and  prohibition
  America the land of the free now has in prisons, one out of every one hundred
Over half of them from drug and alcohol related crimes
apparently common sense would tell you what we are doing now is not working
 Most of the cause of alcoholism is because of lack of education
and folks with either a drug or alcohol problem don't need to be jailed
 they need treatment
 But stupidity runs rampant in our society
I am grateful for my parents for the wisdom that they taught me
the only reason I'm replying to this is Brandy you need to get your head
out in to the air. its not necessary to call someone an idiot you moron
someday you might grow wiser you fool.

How much do you drink a week? How often does your drinking create a problem for someone else?

BTW, I call shitidiot an idiot because she calls herself one...

My husband grew up in the Philippines and there's no drinking age there - but you don't find useless teenagers hanging out every night getting drunk becasue there's no TIME to do such things.  They have chores and responsibilities, and there's not enough money to waste on alcohol - besides, parents would tan hides if they caught their kids doing such things.  They let the kids have sips when they were young and the children are allowed to have a glass of wine with Christmas dinner as they grow up.  They learn to drink responsibly - but then - the parents themselves are responsible.  As you said - stupidity runs rampant in our society. 

Then explain Canada.
Our drinking age is 18 and 19.  Thats 2 or 3 years younger then yours. 
Also explain much of Europe.  Where alchol abuse is much lower and well as health issues related to excessive drinking.  The forbidden fruit agrument has been proven several times. Just to sit here and say it hasnt doesnt prove anything. 

I live in a country that is effect in its alchol control and we border vermont.
start thinking rationally, and not just being a narrow minded old man.

You are saying that the age is lower and that reduce the excesses. That is an unproven hypothesis. Not one person here can show a study - and I have asked them to show one - that proves that aspect of human behavior is a valid reason.

They can't even come up with a half baked one, let alone a valid one. It is your theory and my judgment is far more valid than your random theory. I have studied human nature personally for over 64 years. I am a trained counselor. That is one of the reasons I don't put up with the bullshit. I know what alcohol does. Billy Sunday was right in calling it demon rum. I bites one of four people who partake of it. No kidding, one of four who drink will have a drinking problem in their lifetime. That is even worse than diabetes (I think the current stats is 1 in 6) and they are trying to get people to change lifestyle to get that down. Why not try to get people to change lifestyle and get the alcohol use down?

Let me give you an answer. MONEY.... MONEY... Not corporate revenues - although that is a factor, but TAX money, the liberal life blood. It is the oil that makes the political machinery move. Pennsylvania has it both ways and mostother states do the same things other ways.

PA has a PLCB PA Liquor Control Board. That is the first lie. It really should be called, PRB - PA Revenue Board or PLPB PA Liquor Promotion Board. They promote sales to increase revenue. Only two of 42 state agencies in PA turn more money to the general fund than they take out, Revenue (Lottery and Taxes) and PLCB. In addition to the taxes PA runs the liquor stores and they make money. The state has a monopoly on liquor sales. Beer apparently isn't as dangerous so it is sold by private businesses, carefully regulated and charged considerable license fees. Most states make a lot of money off alcohol.

Let's explain Canada and Europe. (I did elsewhere here but you probably didn't read it.) Kids have less access to cars and smaller personal DI, hence less access to UNSUPERVISED alcohol consumption.

Here we have parental abdication of responsibility and thus we need nanny government to take care of us. We want nanny government to give us health care but don't want them to restrict alcohol use. It can't be both ways....

I disagree with your point that kids in Europe have less access to unsurpervised alcohol. Take me as an example. My mum is extremely overprotective to say the least. Howerver at the age of around 13 me and my friend (who was roughly the same age) bought vodka and got drunk. The reason why i did was because at every opportunity my mum told me NO. Because of that it made me want alcohol more because i wnated to know what was so bad abbout it. The same with cigartettes and in the future probably drugs.

 

So just because we don't have the access to cars at the age of 16 doesn't mean we cant just go to the local shop who will serve anyone as long as there's noone else in the shop. If anything we probably have more access to unsurpervised alcohol than the kids in america. The way to stop drinking abuse is to let children try it whilst under surpervision. And i'm not talking 8 year olds here before you get the wrong idea. I'm sure that if my mum let me experiment with alcohol at an early age i wouldn't drink as heavily as i do now.

OK, explain this. Two of my three kids have never tried alcohol. The other did once when she was 20.

The problem is not the forbidden fruit but the parents getting stoned and telling the kids to not drink...

I agree. However by telling them to not drink it makes alcohol a forbidden fruit. Making alcohol easily accessible and explaining it's effects and dangers. And we cant put the blame simply on parents educational systems are just as responsible as parents.

Yep. But one thing is lacking, parental responsibbility. When that happens we need nanny government.

That must be disappointing to discover that 33.3% of your children disappointed you by drinking alcohol. I'm sorry to hear it...

-- S

I am FOR THIS, baby!

Why not, people fuck up their lives, let 'em do it legally.

I agree with you to a point. If they want to, go out, get drunk, jump off a cliff. Don't kill someone else doing it...

I don't touch the stuff, I'm crazy enough as it is.

That is at least part of it for me. I can do stupid enough stuff without it. But then, you and I have one thing in common that many here don't have. We have figured that out, they haven't. They still think they are smart enough to drink...

And they aren't.

Did you see my note about your home town?

Commented back on it, I think.

Yep, thanks. The only thing nobody mentioned about was, why that many from there? Any ideas?

Most are from Mansfield.  One person found the site, then the rest of us got here through them.

As I've said, I've all for lowering the drinking age to 19, but I'm not really for making it any lower than 19, though.

Heck if you are going to 19, why not 12.

19 is perfect.

Based on what scientific study? Why not 25.

What do scientific studies mean to you? You'll find a way to disregard anything that doesn't agree with you, anyway. There are plenty of logical, statistically backed arguments about the drinking age.
Lowing the drinking age won't make drunk driving any more legal than it already is, will it?

I know a great scientific study. He can try, uh, the rest of the world. I think we are one of, like, two backassward nations on the planet that has a drinking age over eighteen years.

Hogwash! What is this... rest of the world that you speak of? Never heard of that. I'm sure that it's populated with filthy liberal pagan mongrels, therefore completely different than here.

Ha! And we shall eat you alive as sacrifice to our various gods! Really though, do you think he has stepped outside his confines? THere is so much more to life than the Bible Belt of America =)

Scientific studies I will accept are ones that are statistically sound, were not done to prove a point - those will always prove that point - but ones that were done to see what is truth. I would not take a study from either Mothers against Drunk Driving or the American Drinking Age Lowering Society. Both have an agenda, it WILL get into the study.

The rest of the world doesn't matter - except the societies closer to us for several reasons. Muslim countries have to be ignored since they do not allow alcohol. Drinking there should be rampant at all ages based on the theories thrown out here.

In much of Africa and a lot of Asia and South America automobiles are not as prevelant, kids will not be driving, cutting both the possibility of teen DUI and the accessibility fo alcohol. Let's face it, a 16 year old with a car has more access to alcohol. Also the money kids have adds to the problem. Has anyone here actually looked at the drivers of this? Really?

This is an old comment, I guess, but I have a thought on it. The reason 19 is a good age is because, unlike lowering the age to 18, there would be a lot less kids in high school with legal access to the ABC store. If it were 19 then almost everyone on college campuses would be able to drink (and underclassmen who are just starting to drink won't have cars because they are required live on campus) which I think would make it easier to reasonably control the actions of those kids that are drinking rather than schools turning a blind eye and a deaf ear to the problem. 

Another note: I'm 17 and I seem to understand the idea of 'debate' better than you all do....personal attacks don't win you any points. (Unless they are particularly clever)

Although I don't agree with you, your points have more validity than all of the others here.

But then my feelings are tainted by seeing 3 people die near here - hit head on by a drunk, 23 years old, female, second DUI, nearly 3 times legal limit, came down a ramp the wrong way....

Eh I'm getting tired of talking about this.  I've only got 16 days until I'm 21.

But I do agree with captainboring.  If I can go to a foreign country and shoot and kill another human being I should also be able to go and buy a drink.  Not to mention kids who go to war drink regardless of age while over there.

I'm sure that raising the drinking age to 21 has saved some lives but I'm also pretty sure that the type of people who regularly drink while over 21 also used to drink regularly while under 21.