I hope so.  Testicular atrophy and sterilization would prevent them from reproducing.

You have a problem with Timbaland? Why? Is there some sort of personal vendetta? Did he slap your mom or something?

 

Nope...  But anyone who places such a premium on making ungodly amounts of money that they'd subject themselves to the side effects of steroids really should be drained from the gene pool.

So he told you he places a premium on making an ungodly amount of money? So only rappers do this. Models don't and actors don't?  You have a problem with capitalism?

I'm not a huge fan of models either.

Survival is nature's form of capitalism.

I don't know what being a fan has to do with anything other than petty bias.

 

If survival is nature's form of capitalism, then Timbaland has nothing to worry about. He seems to be on the winning end either way. He's got kids and cash. 

& he is miiiiiighty fine =)

It's just a sad sign of our times to compare the price per hundredweight of milk versus the cost of a CD.

And that's Timbaland's fault?

It's society's fault.  Our priorities are fuck like a loose blond at a frat party.

And this has what to do with steriod abuse?

It's all related.

Timbaland's alleged steriod use is why the price of milk is so high?

& here we have it, folks!

No, no, but all the ills of society are definitely related.

People are far too removed from their natural habitat.

Or far too removed from humanity?  You know, like making statements about hoping for the sterilization of people you don't know because you assume things about them because they represent a music genre you don't like?  Hmmm...

No, humanity is a lot of things, but it's not natural.

Humanity is unnatural 'cause Timba snorts the yay!

jk, he just uses steroids, but it is still the reason for the season

LOL! *puts on my rubber boots and takes out my shovel*

Humanity is very natural, it just isn't for some people it seems.  Ah egocentricsm...

Out here on the farm, we use a manure fork, and we do it barefoot.  No need for boots OR a shovel to handle bullshit.

That may be how you do it on your farm, but my granddaddy had higher standards.

Or, maybe he could afford the boots?

He made a good living on his farm. Livestock tends to do well in Texas.  So yeah, he could afford the boots.

All we can grow up here is grass, ground's almost too rocky for corn, so you'd think we'd have more livestock here, but there ain't no money in it anymore.  Ethanol has pushed corn prices up.  Almost 200 dollars a bag for seed corn.  The dairy up here is almost gone.  Used to have milk trucks on our road every day, now they never go by anymore.  With the death of dairy, those of us in the hay business are feeling the pressure.

The climate is more temperate here so people have an easier time raising more of a variety of crops. We even have rice patties in Houston.

We have ice.  If there was still money in cutting up chunks of ice for ice boxes, I could have made a fortune so far this winter, the pond was froze so deep I could walk on it on the third day of our last thaw with complete confidence.

There is a reason that the family heritage advanced from the farms, Mycki!

Isolated folk must have some interesting rhetoric!

This Haterade sure tastes naaasty, Mycki

Take a look at this. I agree with you that the models need to be looked at too.

http://www.socyberty.com/Issues/Baseball-and-Steroids.67350

Also, this was posted to my blog about Marion Jones. I do agree that taking rappers out of the gene pool probably has a positive social impact. They are harming young people by teaching antisocial behavior that will get them in jail... Tell me what value that has.

You may be surprised at what I will say here. I'm not a sports fan in any way but I followed this. I was actually hoping that Marion would be convicted but not get time. Unlike the Enron mob that will get great jobs to replace the ones they had and were able to keep a lot of the money in retirement funds, I believe she was punished enough by the impact on her career. She will probably never recover 1/2 if what she lost. Compared to other sports figures who have done badly she is being hammered. One exception of comparison is Martha Stewart - who took her sentence and served it. I expected whining out of her, she has grown in my eyes because of her character that had cracks but she got it back together.

The only way there will be justice in this is if others get the same penalties - ramped for their involvement.

One thing I will say, best to her. I hope only good for her and her children as she tries to put this ahead. I only hope her resolve that made her a competitor on the field - and although she used steroids I am sure she would have been a serious competitor without them because of her resolve - serves her and her kids well by giving her the drive to go on.

No, I am not soft on this. I just see her as one who made some bad decisions and maybe is smart enough to look back at them and see them as such. If there was some way I could tell her, "Keep on," I would.

I more fear the slutty, skinny models and actresses with fake breasts and what they are doing to our young girls more than the steroid use by athletes.

P.S. He already has kids. TOO LATE!

lol

Honestly, it's getting out of hand. I can see why people who compete in athletic events are in trouble for using steroids, because competition has to be fair, but come on, rappers?  I saw how Sly Stalone got in trouble in an airport for having steroids and his response was, "I'm old and shooting Rocky and Rambo is getting really hard." I thought it was a funny response.

 

The steriod allegations are turning into a witch hunt. I can see the legal ramifications, because they are illegal, but the media is blowing everything out of proportion. They're making it sound like these people have a stash of kiddie porn or something.  If Timbaland wants to shrink his testicles and ruin his liver because he wants to look buff, then let him.

Tell me what positive social impact rappers have....

NONE>

That's your opinion. There are actually a lot of rappers who have positive messages. You wouldn't know that because you don't listen to that genre. Unlike some people I try not to make a judgment about things I know very little about. I at least try to find out more about something before I get on soap box. However, sweeping judgments and black and white thinking seems to work for some people and it makes them feel comfortable and safe. 

 

Find me one rap artist that hasn't used any word or theme.... I can't find one and I quit looking...

You don't listen to rap. Why would you know of any rappers period? All you know are the rappers who get media attention for being controversial.  Do you know who NAS is? The Dead Prez?

Talib Kweli? There are even Christian rap groups. It doesn't take much research to find that out. Like a lot of people, perhaps you only focus on the research that confirms what you already believe. This is a terrible way to do research. If you are truly trying to open your mind, you'd know that. If not, keep doing what you're doing.

You forgot Mos Def! And also, there was an old rap group during the civil rights movement...and I can't for the life of me think of their name right now... but I remember one of their chants. "Black is you, black is me, black is us, black is free." Everything they wrote was political and it all sounded amazing.

The Last Poets! I started listening to them after I read the autobiography of Malcolm X. They make me feel a lot of emotion.

Nas, Prez, and Talbi Kweli, while all being extremley talented muscicians, still talk about the same shit that all other rappers do. And I'm not speaking from ignorance here, I' actually a huge fan of nas and have literally all of his albums spanning from Illmatic to God's Son, and the truth is, that while their is some social commentary thrown in, he still isn't what I would call a positive role model. I have heard some of the christian rappers you have mentioned, and I am impressed, but to be totally honest, by and large the culture and message fostered by the vast majority of modern hip hop is not positive. That being said, I listen to extreme metal bands like white chapel and emperor. Are they good influences? Absolutley not. Not even close. They are horrible. And I don't try to claim they are anything but. Yes certain bands within the genre may have a positive message or engage in social commentary, but I don't claim them to be anything other than what they are. I listen to them cause it's fun and it sounds cool, and I think thats a fine reason to listen to hip hop as well (I've been on a lil' Jon tear latley, hows that for a positive message lol). But it doesn't change the facts. If you turn on your radio and go to your local hip hop station, chances are you won't hear a positive message. You'll hear the stuff that makes money and gets people in a party mood.

Start with straight shots and then pop bottles
Pour it on the models, shut up bitch swallow
If you can't swallow, shut up bitch gargle

Jesus Christ that just sounds like a good time to me. I'd totally party with lil' wayne. Wouldn't want my daughter to though.

I'm not a fan of Lil Jon! Blech.

Anyway, while they have some songs that are explicit, it doesn't mean everything they rap about is explicit. Artists write about what is on their minds at the time. To say that all rappers are negative is incorrect and ridiculous. 

 

I'm glad you mentioned extreme metal and death metal bands. They rarely receive the flack that rapper gets because they don't have as much of a wide following, but they sing about some crazy shit.  Where is the backlash? I have my theories, but I won't get into that.

The backlash certainly was there when Ice-T's speed metal band, Body Count, released "Cop Killer."

And I have my theories about why that song was singled out, too   (I mean -- as opposed to Eric Clapton / Bob Marley and their individual versions of "I Shot the Sheriff.")

-- S

Yeah, because Ice T was involved. He was already notorious for being a *gasp* gangsta rapper.

I bet if that song came out today it wouldn't even dent the headlines.

"To say that all rappers are negative is incorrect and ridiculous. "

lol I don't think I said that. Although I do feel confident in stating that I do feel that the majority of mainstream rappers are poor role models.

"Artists write about what is on their minds at the time."

Apparently what is on the mind of many rappers most of the time is chicks, guns, booze, money and violence. I can't really blame them. I think about chicks, booze, money, and violence as well. In that order more or less. Or sometimes It's politics and social advancement. I guess that would be my minds equivelent to the occasional meaningful cut (several tupac pieces come to mind as well as that song about teenage pregnancy by ludicrous).

My theory for why death metal and black metal don't get the flack hip hop does is because the more extreme metal often doesn't present itself as serious. For example bands like whitechapel or cannibal corpse, un-ashamdely drench themselves in shock value (as well as musical talent). Nobody listens to white chapel and says "maybe I should go exume a corpse and....(leave it at that for now)". Generally when the more graphic death metal presents itself as serious it is with either a political or socio cultural (a la black dahlia muder), or religous message (a la Emperor for Satanism or Impending Doom for Christianity). Generally, metal in it's most gruesome, graphic, and debacherous manifestations, does not present itself as being a positive lifestyle choice (aka as a drug addicted cannibal zombie rapist mass murderer), and when metal does present itself as being serious or worthy of deeper consideration, it is generally with a social message of some sort.

I think the difference in hip hop is that you have a lot of the more popular figures in the industry presenting a violent or misogynistic lifestyle as something positive and worthy of said serious consideration (for example "can you control yo hoe" by snoop dogg). Their is a general emphasis in popular hip hop on certain levels of debauchery and misogyny as a serious lifestyle. Thats just the truth. Which is not to say that their aren't exceptions. Immortal Technique strikes me as the rap equivilent to The Black Dahlia Murder, in that while both are very extreme they both have a message. And both sometimes also delve into the cliches of their genre as well.

"give me a hundred grand, give me your watch, give me your chain
that's your girl, bitch get over here, give me some brain
I'll bust of on her face, and right after the segment
she'll propably rub it in her pussy, trying to get herself pregnant"

As much as i respect Immortal Technique for his innovations in content and his pure talent, theirs no way to argue that their is anything positive to be gleaned from that passage.

I guess basically I'm saying that people want to live like rap stars. It's a very exciting glamorous sounding lifestyle (women, drugs, money, violence). No one really wants to live like the kids in As Blood Runs Black though (who's myspace contains an active request to crash on fan's floors in between shows)

That being said, I like to listen to rediculous pointless misogynistic rap just as much as I love to listen to rediculous pointless gruesome death metal. It's sounds cool and it's fun. It's exciting and it makes you want to move (whether dancing or moshing). What concerns me is the violent culture that I feel certain artists in hip hop add fuel to. Not that all of the issues plaguing american inner cities are the soul fault of the hip hop industry (or that death metal is helping at all), but it doesn't help to have one's musical role models pressing a lifestyle of violence, drug abuse, and misogyny.

No you didn't say that, but the person who I was replying to did. You jumped in the middle of the thread remember?

 

My theory is that rap didn't get any flack until it became mainstream.  When white kids started liking rap, then it got a ton of flack.  I'm old enough to remember when rap first came out and when rap first became controversial. \

 

"Controlling your ho" sounds just as ridiculous to me as someone covering themselves in chicken blood for shock value.

 

Violence existed in this culture way before hip hop was invented and  hip hop  is not the only genre of music that contains violent or sexually explicit lyrics. And as far as pressing a lifestyle of drug abuse? That's only glamourized in rap lyrics? Give me a break!

 

 

If I could find that Heina
And that Sancho that she's found
well I'd pop a cap in Sancho and I'd slap her down...

 

Tell Sanchito that if he knows what is good for him
He'd best go run and hide,
Daddy's got a new .45
And I won't think twice to stick that barrel straight down Sancho's throat
Believe me when I say that I got something for his punk ass!

 

Not Rap.

 

Are you ready for a good pounding baby? (get down)
Are you ready to get it on? (get down, get down)
Don't pretend you're not fucking freaky baby. (get down)
I will spank that ass just for fun (get down, on the ground)

Ass up high, make a motherfu-cker cry
It's so good, that I could die
Help me stay alive.

Not Rap.

 

I wanna fuck you like an animal
I wanna feel you from the inside
I wanna fuck you like an animal
My whole existence is flawed
You get me closer to God

 

Not Rap.

 

If you got bad news, you wanna kick them blues; cocaine.
When your day is done and you wanna run; cocaine.
She dont lie, she dont lie, she dont lie; cocaine.

If your thing is gone and you wanna ride on; cocaine.
Dont forget this fact, you cant get it back; cocaine.
She dont lie, she dont lie, she dont lie; cocaine.

 

Not rap.

I guess basically I'm saying that people want to live like rap stars. It's a very exciting glamorous sounding lifestyle (women, drugs, money, violence). No one really wants to live like the kids in As Blood Runs Black though

Huh? I guess that's what I get for growing up in the 70's and 80's. Kids wanted to live like Motley Crue and "party like rockstars". 

 

 

"No you didn't say that, but the person who I was replying to did. You jumped in the middle of the thread remember?"

Yeah but you stated that in your reply to my comment so I thought it was directed at me. My mistake.

" 'Controlling your ho' sounds just as ridiculous to me as someone covering themselves in chicken blood for shock value."

They are both rediculous. The difference being that in "control you hoe" snoop dogg presents physical violence as a viable means for solving a dispute within a relationship. Nothing evere recorded by whitechapel or cannibal corpse is present as a viable means for anything. It's pure shock value, its not intended to be taken seriously, whereas the subject matter in snoop's song is presented as something reasonable and actionable. As for the metal bands who actually do condone violent Satanic practice as something reasonable and actionable, I think that they are everybit as bad an example as snoop or 50 cent. I would not want my children looking up to either of those two men as role models, nor would I want them looking up to the members of Mayhem or Emperor.

"Violence existed in this culture way before hip hop was invented"

I never said that hip hop is souly responsible for the violence in American pop culture. In fact I think I specificaly said that it is not.

"hip hop is not the only genre of music that contains violent or sexually explicit lyrics."

I never said that either. Hip hop is certainly not alone in this. That doesn't mean its still not a significant part of hip hop.

"And as far as pressing a lifestyle of drug abuse? That's only glamourized in rap lyrics? Give me a break!"

Again, I never said that it was ONLY glamourized in rap lyrics. Hip Hop certainly has plenty of company in this. But again, just because its not alone doesn't mean it's still not a signficant part of it.

"Huh? I guess that's what I get for growing up in the 70's and 80's. Kids wanted to live like Motley Crue and "party like rockstars". "

ABRB is a completley different band from a completley different genre with a completley different message than Motley Crue. Their is no comparison. That's like comparing Nelly to Immortal Technique. Motley Crue was Glam Rock ABRB is Deathcore. It's practically the difference between actual delta blues and led zeppelin. That being said, do I think Motley Crue or GnR reprsent gaulity life style desicions and present themselves as positive role models? Of course not, that's absurd. Slash almost killed himself with heroine for chrissake.

I think you seem to be getting the impression that I think hip hop is the soul culprit for all the ills of pop culture and american society, which Im not saying at all, their are certainly other powerful forces at work. But that doesn't excuse hip hop either, which most certainly has an infantuation with violence, drugs, money, and misogyny. Theirs no denying that fact, it's present everywhere in almost every artists work to some effect. It's not a surprise. It's a very popular musical genre, and virtually everything in our society that is popular is linked to some excesive form of violence, sex, drugs, or money. People love those things, they sell records, they sell clothes, they sell food, they sell everything.

ABRB is a completley different band from a completley different genre with a completley different message than Motley Crue. Their is no comparison. That's like comparing Nelly to Immortal Technique. Motley Crue was Glam Rock ABRB is Deathcore. It's practically the difference between actual delta blues and led zeppelin.

 

I was comparing lifestyles NOT musical style. I do know the difference between musical genres and categories and I do listen to a wide variety of different styles music.

 

That being said, do I think Motley Crue or GnR reprsent gaulity life style desicions and present themselves as positive role models? Of course not, that's absurd. Slash almost killed himself with heroine for chrissake.

That's exactly my point! I'm sick of rap getting the brunt of the flack for promoting negative images while other genres get off scott free with very little criticism. No one is excusing hip hop, but people seem to be excusing  and glossing over other genres. Like I said, it virtually had no criticism until it started being enjoyed by mainstream culture. In the days of pop princesses not taking care of their kids and going on their 4th and 5th stints in rehab, rock stars offing themselves either accidently or on purpose and music moguls being charged with murder you'd think the one-sided blame game would be played out.

shoot man the guys in ABRB WISH they had the kind of money to live like motley crue.

I feel like the main thing that would set certain hip hop artists apart from certain decadent rock artists this violent lifestyle that some rap artists promote. This is not to say that no rock artists has ever done something irresponsible or violent or never suggested that people do those things, but it certainly appears to be more prevalent in hip/hop. This tends to be more poignant when you take into consideration that it reflects and promotes an actual dangerous lifestyle. Again, I'm not trying to single out hip hop as the only culprit. God forbid somebody live the way Axl suggests they do in Nightrain. But really do feel that promotion of real life violence (not borderline cartoonish b-horror slasher violence) is generally more common in hip hop than in rock, r&b, reggae (real old school reggae not modern rap-with-a-jamaican accent reggae) etc. I'm not saying those genres are devoid but I do think the above mentioned themes are more common in hip hop.

I don't think they are more common in hip hop. I think hip hop is more singled out.

 

I also think it is unfair to look at violence promoted in death metal and goth metal as cartoonish. People do slash their wrists and people do mutilate and rape and committ heinous acts like cannibalism.  Just because the type of violence rap seems to promote appears to be more common place, doesn't mean horrific crimes that the heavier rock groups sing about don't happen. People walk into malls and on campuses and blow other people away, etc.  It is not cartoonish, it is just more unbelievable and even more unthinkable when it actually happens.

"People do slash their wrists and people do mutilate and rape and committ heinous acts like cannibalism. Just because the type of violence rap seems to promote appears to be more common place, doesn't mean horrific crimes that the heavier rock groups sing about don't happen."

That is true, but the key phrase is "promote", and that is the major difference. The above mentioned acts are rarley actually promoted by the bands, and as I mentioned are the musical equivilent of Friday the 13th or Nightmare on Elmstreet, and yes it is said when things like that happen, but the art form itself (wether it be music or film) is still pure fantasy and is not intended to promote the actions themselves. As I also discussed before, yes their are metal bands that DO promote violence (both towards oneself and towards). Like I said, I wouldn't my kids looking up to snoop or 50 cent anymore than I want them looking up to Faust from Emperor or ANYBODY from Mayhem, but by and large metal either presents itself as a musical horror movie, or when it does present itself as serious, as socio-political commentary. I will concede that cartoonish was a poor choice of words though.

Their are many rappers who's entire persona hangs on the fact that before they became famous they WERE actually involved in theft, murder, rape, etc. and other types of violence which they blatantly glamorize it in their music as a viable lifestyle. With the exception of some of the more radical Norwegian black metal bands and some annoying whiny emo bands (who think they are hardcore or metal or w/e but are despised by actual metal bands) nobody in metal actually endorses the violence discussed in their music, just like Sean Cunnigham (director and producer of many of the Friday the 13th films) does not actually condone machete attacks as a solution to real life problems.

I'm glad you mentioned cutting though. I have a lot of friends who have struggled with serious depression, and I actually have a really serious problem with emo bands who romanticize and glamorize depression and self mutilation. So far I have yet to meet somebody who suffers clinical depression and who has hurt themselves or tried to kill themselves who actually wants to be that way. From what I understand it is life ruining and a terrible struggle and burden for them and to have it made into this twisted little subculture that glorifies a lifestyle that most genuine victims spend their entire lives trying to find some relief from sickens me.

How can it be pure fantasy if it actually happens? I think if you glorify anything you are in a sense promoting it. Glorifying death is promoting it. Glorifying living large is promoting it. There's no difference.

 

Half of those personas are exaggerated. Why do you think people make a big deal out of reporting so-in-so really grew up in the suburbs?  No one ever talks about the type of stuff some of these metal bands were involved in before they became popular. RAPPERS ARE SINGLED OUT.  You act like death metal musicians had squeaky clean backgrounds and just decided to sing about sick, violent shit for the hell of it, but the rappers are serious.  That type of thinking is  is a form of Attribution or Cognitive Bias. (look these terms up if you don't know what they mean already.)

 

Rap isn't a socio-political commentary? "Today is a Good Day" ?  "White Lines"? "Dear Momma"? "First of the Month"? "Da Crossroads"? "By the Time I Get to Arizona"? "Jesus Walks"? "Sky High"? "Because I Got High"?  These aren't social commentaries?

 

One could say rappers present themselves as musical gangster movies.  People wanting be gangsta is just as much as fantasy as these "horror film" acts. Why do you think so many rappers make references to the movie Scarface, Goodfellas and the Godfather?

"How can it be pure fantasy if it actually happens? I think if you glorify anything you are in a sense promoting it."

It's fantasy the way that texas chainsaw massacre is fantasy. Do you honestly think that the message (if their is any actual message) behind that movie is that people should go out and chainsaw eachother?

"Half of those personas are exaggerated. Why do you think people make a big deal out of reporting so-in-so really grew up in the suburbs?"

Some are from the suburbs some aren't. I don't care if they are exaggerated because the truth of the matter is the that the things they talk about are things they participated in to some extent and actively endorse.

"You act like death metal musicians had squeaky clean backgrounds and just decided to sing about sick, violent shit for the hell of it, but the rappers are serious. "

I don't believe I actually said that, and I certainly wasn't attempting to imply it. I feel like I've been over this a lot though. I know a LOT of kids who play death metal and who make songs with some pretty graphic content and the truth is that I have yet to meet a single one who has an actual violent history or who endorses that type of behavior. Most of them aren't squeaky clean by any means either. Some do coke and many womanize, and I don't pretend that it is anything other than it is (I wouldn't want my daughter to party with them OR lil wayne), but in this situation I'm focusing on the violent aspects of music. As for figures in metal who do have a violent history and endorse said behavior, I feel I have been over that in each of my replies so far. YES they exist. YES they are bad role models. YES most of them are in prison now and should be. But the simple truth of it is that the ratio of rappers to metal musicians who actually endorse a real life violent lifestyle isn't even close.

"Rap isn't a socio-political commentary? "

I never said that, if you want I can go back through all of my messages and site every time that I made a reference to artists or songs by rap artists that I feel ARE social commentary. Cause I have, and I never once said that rap is completely devoid political commentary.

"One could say rappers present themselves as musical gangster movies."

One could say that, but Al Paccino doesn't actually live like he did in Scarface and I would be extremely surprised if he endorsed such a lifestyle. Depiction of a lifestyle or activity for the purpose of telling a good story without endorsing it is different then the real life promotion, glamorization, and demonstration of said lifestyle or activity. In fact if Al Paccino came out and said "Actually, my office at home is full of cocaine and firearms, and I killed my sisters husband.", then that would change everything. Furthermore, what happens to rappers who present themselves as musical gangster movies but can't in fact back it up in real life? When they are exposed they lose all credibility and their record sales plummet.

lol we aren't even talking about steroids and I don't even listen to Timbaland, In all honestly hat first kid that you responded to sounded like an obnoxious prick.

Attribution Theory It explains soooooo much.

 

http://changingminds.org/explanations/theories/attribution_theory.htm

 

Kanye West's record sales didn't plummet.  Will Smith's record sales didn't plummet. Dr. Dre's sales didn't plummet even after that horrible picture of him wearing eyeliner and looking androgynous came out from his days with the World Class Wrecking Crew.

 

 

 

Dre's in the white suit.

Will Smith and Kanye west are irrelevant to this conversation because they never presented themselves as violent individuals. They didn't have to deal with a loss of credibility or being exposed because they never claimed to be anything other than what they are. Dre happens to also be a very talented producer and talent scout. He has only released two solo albums since leaving NWA anyway. I question wether or not he would still be in hip hop if he didn't have other skills relevant to the industry. Perhaps he would have joined the ranks of MC Ren, DJ yella, Arabian Prince, or Krazy Dee.

What about vanilla ice? Look how well that went...

I'm familiar with attribution theory, but I thought I made it abundantly clear that I'm not trying to attribute all the ills of the world to Hip Hop. I feel like I've said it almost in those exact words several times. I think it has it's own special niche within the mess but the state of America's inner cities was a joint effort. Nor do I feel like I have presented myself as particularly altruistic in contrast either. I'm a douchebagy college dude with a soft spot for my Evans.

Vanilla Ice was over scrutinized for being white in the first place. There was only him and the Beastie Boys back then and the BBs had the advantage of actually knowing other rappers in the industry and being from New York area. Vanilla Ice is from Carolton, TX.  Kanye West did get hassled for not having enough street cred, he just didn't give a damn.

 

What the heck does Dre being very talented have to do with anything? His roots are in gangsta rap. He was just more savvy when it came to being flexible and moving ahead in his career.

 

Although you said, you weren't trying to attribute all of the worlds ills to hip hop, you clearly glossed over other music genre's roles when it came to promoting negative images even to the point of trivializing them by calling them cartoonish. That is where the attribution error came in.

 

"Kanye West did get hassled for not having enough street cred, he just didn't give a damn."

Exactly, he didn't have to give a dem. People said "you have know street cred" and he said "I don't, and I never pretended to". My point still stands.

"He was just more savvy when it came to being flexible and moving ahead in his career."

Once, again thats exactly what I said. If he wasn't so flexible he probably wouldn't be in rap anymore, particularly not gangsta rap. Just like those other former NWA members who weren't flexible and are now out of the game. He wouldn't have been any different.

"Although you said, you weren't trying to attribute all of the worlds ills to hip hop, you clearly glossed over other music genre's roles when it came to promoting negative images even to the point of trivializing them by calling them cartoonish."

First of all I already acknowledge that cartoonish was a poor choice of words. Second of all, ONCE AGAIN, if you want me to go back and sight every single time that I acknowledged the immoral behavior and poor examples present in other genres I will. I did it ALOT and VERY clearly.

Yet you still contributed the other violence to being theatrical in nature.

 

I believe your point was about rappers getting flack about having street cred.  You brought up Vanilla Ice. I brought up Kanye. Both got flack for their lack of street cred.  My point still stands. Do you even remember what your point was?

 

Again, what does Dre's talent have to do with him getting flack for his lack of street credibility? I brought up the point that he did because YOUR original point was about rappers getting slammed for not having street credibility NOT how smart or talented they were. You just managed to build a strawman argument about how talented they were. YOUR ORIGINAL POINT WAS THE FACT THAT RAPPERS GET SLAMMED FOR NOT HAVING STREET CREDIBILITY.  You brought up Vanilla Ice and his failing career. I brought up Kanye West and Dre who both got flack, but it didn't hurt their career. You did nothing but prove MY point. Thanks for taking credit for it though.

 

You acknowledged cartoonish was a poor choice of words, but you still gloss over the effects of the violence present in other genres of music. You think it isn't to be taken seriously while rap lyrics are to be taken seriously. By the way, I can't think of anything more cartoonish than a small man with wild dreadlocks and platinum teeth carrying a chalice screaming "yeaaaayuh" and "hooo kaaaay!"  The attribution errors still stand. Confirmation bias.

"Vanilla Ice was over scrutinized for being white in the first place. There was only him and the Beastie Boys back then and the BBs had the advantage of actually knowing other rappers in the industry and being from New York area. Vanilla Ice is from Carolton, TX."

FURTHERMORE, vanilla white blatantly falsified information about his pre-rap industry life, claiming in his autbiography that he had been stabbed in a gang brawl, which proved false. He is the text book example of what happens when somebody pretends to have street cred but doesn't actually have any. To my knowledge none of the Beastie Boys ever made the absurd claims about their past that Ice did.