Of course they should be able to succeed...this land belongs to the Native American's..nNot to pull the race card, but Europeans cheated then out of what was theirs. Then when they developed a conscience about it, gave them the worst pieces of land that we have.  Considering all the shady crap our government is in now, I'd wanna suceede also!

I'm just wondering if you mean "succeed" or "secede"?

oops, secede.

You just pulled the race card. Don't lie about it.

its not the race card, its the "don't take what's not urs" card

The whole cheated out thing pales when you realize the American Indian killed off another pre-existing society....

Is this your way of taking back your previous statement?

And are you saying that what you're talking about in the last reply (I know nothing about it) justifies what was done to them?  I mean, if the Chinese came and took over America, killed most of us off, raped the women, and forced us to move to the driest hunk of dead earth...do you thing that would be justified... because we did it to the Native Americans?

Also, the "well he did it" excuse went out with grade school...of which neither of us are in.

No, it doesn;t justify but it sure blows the "evil white man" "good indian thing"

then we agree

I think Mindsay Staff have their favorites that report!  I reported this over a week ago to mindsay news and even gave them the news articles that accompanied the withdrawl of the Lakota Nation.

 

Just shows you that Mindsay staffers are a lil clique if you ask me and I will no longer be submitting news articles!

 

All they can put up is mindless drival or their favorite posters news articles.  And I am not the only one that feels this way.  From various comments on my blog and other people's blogs a lot of ppl feel the same way about Mindsay News and the staff incharge of this.

Here is my proof!  http://niassa.mindsay.com/?date=2007-12-22

I think Mindsay news is still, well, new. Perhaps they feel it is something they are taking a risk with, and after more people submitted this article as news, they realized people wanted to read about it. Also, I think maybe they didn't want to link to you because you said not so nice things about them.

But that is just one girl's opinion, speaking for myself. I also contribute news at least once a week, so it is unfair of me to judge. What I've noticed is that more absurd news gets posted, stuff that will grab a reader's attention. Less politics, more "wtf?!" (though there is plenty of "wtf?!" in politics).

Hopefully, they'll work out the bugs, though. Thanks for posting something insightful!

this is true, the theme of our news for the moment could best be described as "wtf?"  We like to choose things that will create a lot of discussion in the comments.  This may change as we expand into more categories, but for now, it seems to be working pretty well at achieving this goal.

We honestly don't pay attention to who submits stories and don't pick favorites.  In fact, I wasn't even familiar with the user who submitted the story we linked to.  We are starting to get a lot more submissions, and it's possible I simply missed yours.  It looks like you submitted it on the 22nd, and to be honest, I rarely check my email on the weekends so there is a good chance I missed it.  Anyways, I hope this doesn't discourage you from submitting future stories, as you obviously have some interesting things to share with the community.  

To be fair though Adam, this is a smarter crowd than you generally find in public, and yet our news page is often the same trivial crap, celebrity gossip, and human interest that we could get any hour of any day simply by turning on our televisions.  

What type of content would you prefer to see?  I do think News is doing a good job of creating conversation so far, but we do want to eventually add more topics that cover a broader range of interests.  Right now, we primarily pick the stories we think will create the most conversation. 

My big complaint is you posted something that is of interest to at least 5 people here.... And not more than 7...

Well, I understand that everyone has a different idea of what's news, and what constitutes important news.  However if someone is into water skiing squirrels, they can go to just about any of our network news stations.  I would prefer that the news which doesn't get reported on television was posted, to use the news page to fill that gap between the infotainment on television and the critical issues we need to be following.  More foreign affairs would be top on my list, and anything relating to the Iraq war, or the middle east in general, since people seem to be under the impression that the middle east is one country occupied entirely by terrorists.

Hi, i just want to point out that this is is the FIRST time that any of my news submissions have EVER been posted.  I imagine they might wait till they get the same story submitted at least a couple times before they post it, i also hope that from now on Mindsay will be linking the first person that sent them the story instead of a later person, that way everyone can be happy and we can maintain unity in our Mindsay community.  But it seems to me that what's important is the story itself and not who posted it.  Anyway Niassa, i'm glad that you also felt that this story was important and wanted to share it.  As the Diné (Navajo) people say, Walk in Beauty.  Blessings.

Thank you quddus. My issue isn't with you at all and I am glad you saw that!  And I agree that if that is NOW one of their guidelines that it has to be submitted multiple times they need to do two things.........

A.  Put it on their submission guidlines when folks submitt!

B.  Instead of listing anyone as the submitter put multiple submissions have came from this story or something!

 

I am going to suggest that maybe a survery gets done because trust me folks I am not the only one that feels this way about the News here on Mindsay.  A LOT of people do.  I just have the balls to say it out loud. 

If this is what you consider important, please Astrow, place is submissions on ignore.

This is a bunch of worthless rabble that has nothing better to do than make a fuss.

Get off the Mindsay is bigoted crap. They are almost as liberal as you are and liberalism is a mental disorder..

LMAO And you my dear man have some of your own issues and mental disorders too now don't you?

I think they should totally be allowed to secede. In fact, I would love to join them. Where do I sign up?

I'm with you.  Farmers and artistic lesbians should get together, form our own tribe, expand a few tracts of land, institute a forum of our members, and declare our independence!  With sufficient organic, healthy food to eat, we would be free to create a grandiose culture full of art and literature, the envy of the free world.  Oh, and no taxes.

You had me at "no taxes."

I've always wanted to find a bunch of people who would be into the barter and trade system. Trading one skill for another -- I think it is an amazing lifestyle. And it also means no taxes. Buy a large piece of land in the middle of nowhere and let loose.

Farmers and lesbians unite!

The one thing about no taxes is that it doesn't allow for community purchases.  For example, the development and maintaining of roads, libraries, schools, etc.  There are certainly other ways to get those jobs done that don't involve taxes, but with taxation, it is the most fair--if using a progressive tax system.  This way, everyone in the community contributes to a pool of money that benefits the entire group, and everyone in the community can help decide how to use it to better their lives.

We'll call it a volunteer tax. Not mandatory, but if people want to achieve something together, then together we can make it happen.

Within a small community, taxes are unnecesary to get such products done.  The network of logging roads, right of ways, and access roads that are maintained by farmers up here are a plain example of that.  In a barter and trade system, as actual taxation is impossible from a practical, monetary standpoint, we more than make up for it by, as Cas sort of implied, with volunteerism.  If knocking down a fencerow is good for two farms, then both farms get together and take it out together, likewise for improving a stream or access  road.  It is only in a morally bankrupt, money rich state that any form of taxation is necessary to meet such ends.

I agree with both your and cas's points.  I also believe that while in a small community this is attainable and preferable, the community of this particular tribe is much larger.  Unless each individual town or village were operating independently, working as a group to better the entire land area would benefit from taxation.  Several people can change a large area, but it takes lots of time, and lots of resources.  It would be more efficient if the whole group worked together, if, for example, they wanted to develop their state's resources to import or export goods, or create/maintain means of transportation for long-distance travel.  As separate communities, each group of people living in a small area could easily uphold benefits for its members.  As a whole community, some organization would be required so everyone who wanted something for their state could help make it happen.  I agree, taxation is not the only answer.  But it is an option, one which is kept from many reservations, as it is a form of governmental action.  I am not saying it should be implemented, but rather it is an option that now, as a sovereign state, they have the ability to choose.

Of course, that tax does not necessarily have to be an income tax, especially in a money-poor region.  Taxing optional activities is far more palatable.  For instance, to maintain roadways, a fee for owning or operating a motor vehicle on public roadways could be taken in order to pay for road maintenence.

Sounds like fun, but the only reason the Lakhota are (possibly) going to get away with it is because after all the "Americans" put them through, the government is hesitant to continue acts of opression. Now, not to suggest that artistic lesbians haven't been through some opression, but not widely encouraged by the entirety of the federal government, which means they don't feel like they owe lesbians much of anything. We need to find a way to press the guilt button really hard in order to pull this off.

Small family farmers, on the other hand, have been routinely walked on, used, abused, and cut off in nearly all attempts to save themselves by railways, governments, and bankers.

It's very true, but the government doesn't feel bad about any of that. Slavery and Trail of Tears. They're too busy concocting the next scandal and tax increase to care about much more than that.

Farmers built this country, farmers made up a huge, disproportionately large number of the men who have fought and died in every American war through our history.  Upon land cleared by hand by farmers, we have leveled their houses and barns to build our cities and shopping centers, factories and parks.  Even with young bucks like me, the average age of the American farmer is 55 years old.  When we die, America dies.

Again, I know. I grew up on a modest farm. Don't tell me; tell the government and banks that are doing the aforementined leveling.

Alas.

I just wanted to jump in here and thank those of you for your courtesy and open-mindedness.  There are some people on here who are incredibly racist and ignorant.  I am Menominee and Chippewa.  Whenever anyone mentions this subject on any forum, things can get ugly.

I'm ignoring the comments/replies of the one guy on here who has said some pretty terrible things.  Oh, well, can't blame him too much.  People will believe what they want to no matter what.

It's true. If I had half a brain, I probably just would have ignored him myself. You've inspired me. Thanks.

Yes, it's something I've had to learn, too.  I'm pretty outspoken as well and am used to standing up for the truth, but it's the easiest hardest thing to do: letting go of those who just don't "get it", you know? 

 

The Tribal secedes from U.S. issue isn't a new one.  It's been around for a long while.  The Menominee tribe has a long history of the same thing.  I still think it's a weird thing for us to be separate and still be American, almost laughable, but holding on to our culture is hard when previously just in order to survive my family had to leave many old ways behind.  My father was put into a boarding school where he was forced not to speak the Menominee language, cut his hair, stop calling praying to the Great Spirit, etc.  Since the majority of Americans don't share that sort of history, they will never understand.  My father is finally getting his memoirs published, so maybe if more elders shared their stories, maybe more people will know.

 

In any case, such is life when living in two different worlds!

Thanks for sharing that. BTW--I for one, would buy his book!

After what the indians put the white men through at the same time....

Crap.... Pure crap. And BTW 3/4 of the people in the uS who claim to have indian blood, DON't... There weren't enough indians left after the white man killed them off to have that many offspring. Don;t any of you read the liberal koolaid?

I'm as conservative as they come on virtually every issue, but you, sir, are giving the entire political right a bad name. It's this kind of ignorance that is going to loose the republicans the election; because of people like you, the right wing gets typecasted into this kind of idiocy, which is just not fair to the rest of us.

What did I say that wasn't true? It was WAR.... The Indian first embraced the white man, then attacked killing women and children. When the shoe went on the other foot it was crying and whining.

Are you still believing that fake college professor (can't remember his name) who who claimed to be an Indian and wasn't?

The right gets typecast that way because we don't stand up and tell the truth, we try to apologize for it. There is a archaeological dig that has found places that indians slaughtered previous civilizations. Bring that up in a discussion with one of the red savages or their supporters today and you will get a bunch of crap. They are fighting the dig on the grounds it is a burial ground. Damn straight it is. It is where their victims are buried.

Hmmm. let me think - let's not uncover these bodies that sadaam slaughtered because it is a burial ground. Get the point?

The secession of Native American tribes is a long overdue necessity.  Not only have my ancestors taken their land and replaced their culture with that of their own, my people and brethren have since then steadfastly disabled Native Americans to reclaim their own sovereign rights.  There are numerous talking points to show the hypocrisy and prejudice with which Caucasian Americans have created an empire.  Illegal immigrant policies and Native American rights are only two particularly large pieces of the pie.  I mention illegal immigrant policies because of the history of European settlers and Native American tribes.  In all actuality, European settlers were nothing more than immigrants, but they grew to empirically impose their culture and tradition upon the civilization they stumbled upon.  I realize that exploration and discovery were huge parts of the colonial period, however discovery is somewhat limited when, upon finding a new civilization, one stamps out this unique culture and forces it to turn over its land and liberty on the basis of an ethnocentric "superior right."  There is no excuse for this, but neither should either party (Native Americans or Americans of European descent) still be paying or suffering for these events.  Any person has an inalienable right to create their own nation, and any person with land has an inalienable right to create their own state.  International politics are anarchical in nature, and there is no widespread law about anything, much less any person's ability to declare their sovereignty.  This land legally belongs to these people, according to the treaties they signed when allotted reservations as a lame apology from the United States government.  What they aren't allowed, legally, is to form their own government, even though their territories are already semi-sovereign from the United States.  This is not just wrong, it is illogical.  Reasonably, their territory belongs to them, and thus it should be under their jurisdiction.  The result of lack of governmental ability has condemned many reservations to impoverished conditions, without the ability to tax its citizens or use committees to budget those funds for communal purposes.  I anxiously await the uprising and reanimation of Native American culture, a lively and beautiful thing that has been all but dead in the eyes of US citizens for years.

I second this!

 

You're right that neither nation need suffer for these atrocities, and right now, America is pretty much forcing the continued suffering of the Native American nations. What this country needs is to find a way to build an America where a Navajo or Lakhota or Shoshone person can come and enjoy all that we enjoy as Americans without forsaking their heritage.

 

If that neccesitates some sacrifice on my part, well, that's what I get for claiming citezenship of this great nation. To call myself an American means a lot more than taking my hat off when the flag goes by; it also means claiming the American heritage, which unfortunately includes the sins against this land's former inhabitants. I don't beleive that I should have to move back to Switzerland to make room for mass tribal lands, but I also don't beleive that those tribal lands ought to be pushed to the armpits of the land.

 

Maybe all of America ought to be under joint jurisdiction, each tribe given an equal portion of land throughout the country, and the states operate therein. I don't know the answer; I'm not a smart man. All I know is that whatever change that benefits these opressed people is right.

The solution is simple. Make them american citizens, same rights and responsibilities as the rest of us, taxes, laws, etc....

NOW>...

I wish it were as simple as that. The current reserve system has made it virtually impossible to do what you propose AND to allow these people to hang on to their language, culture, and religion, and that's a choice I don't think they should have to live with.

Placing them on reservations and giving them nations was wrong. We didn't do that with Texans when we took that.

They are Americans by conquest. That is a fact. They should have two choices, become full Americans or emigrate somewhere they can live this way. Actually we should probably give some Texans that choice, the ones who want to declare a republic of Texas which is based on a lie.

Texas was annexed, genius. I think Texans have pretty much proven that if they wanted to be a sovrein nation they could have pulled it off, or at least given the states enough hell to make it not worth their while.

Actually Texans have the right to leave under the treaty of 1839 which was a draft that was not ratified but not under the treaty of 1840 which was the one ratified.... Many of their people don't know that an unratified treaty is like a unsigned contract...

They did have the right to split their state into 2 (maybe 3) but they didn't. If they had there would have been 4 or six of their congressmen rather than 2...

I don;t give a SHIT about their language, culture or religion. They can keep it but they need to integrate with the society when they work, etc. That means English has to be a functional second language. PS - Mention that to the wet backs too...

You name is the appropriate title to your post. It shows a complete lack of understanding of history.

BTW< Liberalism is a mental disorder. Take another drink of that liberal koolaid...

You've been watching too much Faux news!

You can't even spell a three letter word and you want to tell me about history? Bullshit...

Wow, where do I start? Faux is French for false...as in the opposite of true...as in what Fox new is....and no...knowing French does not make me an enemy of the state...as I'm sure that was going to be your next statement

This is too easy!

It's name is Fox news. Faux is a slam, something the left is good at. I assume that anyone using it is unable to handle normal verbal discourse, i.e. IQ less than 80. Definitely they have no skills in discussion.

Stick to using words, not slams. They make you look petty and stupid.

Stick to using words, not slams. They make you look petty and stupid.

... says the man who gave us "Liberalism is a mental disorder. Take another drink of that liberal koolaid..."

-- S

Fox news slams liberals all day, as did you with the " Liberalism is a mental disorder. Take another drink of that liberal koolaid" comment...typical conservative...you can dish it out, but heaven forbid you hafta take it.

Fix tells the truth and the liberals call it slamming because they don;t have anything else to say.

Have you ever listened to CNN?

I get my news from independent media (LinkTV, etc) its like gourmet coffee compared to the cheap hotel instant coffee of CNN and Fox.  I'm done with this conversation...but you should try getting your news from independent organizations. 

Ignorance is simply not knowing.  Arrogance is not knowing, but pretending you do.

i'm sorry.

what?? idiots.