It's history.  No different than when we look back longingly on the good old days.

Who cares - you can't appeal to everyone. Oh, and Americans tend to find offense in everything - we love lawsuits

True that.

Haha The truth doesn't always hurt... it's sometimes funny!

Intrepid28 and i were just discussing this topic last night at a dinner party... and i think he made a great point.  all these people who complain about the illegal immigrants and "all the mexicans" coming into the US forget... many of these people's ancestors were coming up here every summer to pick fruit before a lot of these complainers had any ancestors in the california region and before they put up a big fence. 

as a white american that lives in california... i love the absolut ad.  i think it's hilarious.  good for them!

Actually I am against the fence. Dig a mote, put in piranha's.

I think this is a slap in the face to all Americans.

And I plan to boycott all Absolut beverages while I'm operating a motor vehicle or heavy machinery.

Who's with me?

-- S

I'm in. 

Fact: Gay people drink Absolut

I can't boycott them, I already did...

... and, when frozen to an extreme temperature, Absolute can solidify into the shape of a potentially fatal stabbing weapon.

-- S

.. too bad vodka doesn't freeze ^.^

Everything freezes given the right temperature and atmosphere.  In our atmosphere, vodka could freeze at temperatures below -40 degrees.

But no -- most freezers don't go that low.

-- S

But Alaska does.

Hah, my bad, I didn't see that you wrote "To an extreme temperature" ^.^

YOU DON'T KNOW ME!

I actually do not think that I have ever had a sip of Absolut lol -- but their ads are pretty nifty!

not me...but then, I don't think I technically count.

aye

Let them print the crap. I don;t by the booze, Mexican crap or otherwise, so boycotting it doesn't do any good. It is a good illustration of how corrupt government can screw up things. The Mexicans have had it since the 1700's. And they have suffered and continue to suffer.

They like to break the law so they like to hav corrupt government that doesn;t enforce the law, look at the illegal immigration, over 9 million Mexicans have been willing to break American law. sounds like ... That is out of 108 million mexicans, 8% of the population, one in 12.... Look around, if people were leaving here, one of 10 of your friends would be gone if you were here...

That is a hell of a statement about the country, over 8 percent have left and more would if they could figure out how....

When Mexico tries to act like a legitimate country with a legitimate government we shoudl laugh at them....

Mexicans like to break the law so their government is corrupt, therefore they're leaving?
That makes no sense.
Perhaps they're leaving because they don't agree with their corrupt government.

The mexican government is corrupt because the people allow it... They have elections and consistently make the worst choices. It is like voting for Obama or CLinton this time, the bad choice.

They are so steeped in corruption that breaking american law doesn;t mean anything.

because you feel voting for Obama or Clinton is a bad choice, doesn't make it an actual bad choice. We all have our reasons for how we vote.  We choose what best fits within our ideals and our desires for our country.  You cannot sit there an judge whats best for everyone, only yourself.

America is just as corrupt as Mexico.
Most countries are.  Even those whom are "developed"

Blanked statements like "They like to break the law so they like to hav corrupt government that doesn;t enforce the law"  in MY opinion show you to be nothing more then narrow minded, blind, and totally prejudice based on your own "observations"

Whatever nationality you are may not have been legal at the time your ancestors came here.  ALL of North American people whom are not NATIVE american's are immigrants legal or not.

You say 8 precent of Mexicians have left there homeland, yet what does it say of American for the precentage that have feld the current America and the Bush government for life in Canada?  There is a large precentage of your countries people leaving.  So what  does that say about where you are?  If you want to draw conclusions based on that, look in your own back yard.

Yes, yes. You are so mature. When Mexico tries to act like a legitimate country with a legitimate government we should laugh at them...just like I laugh at the US with Bush as a leader and his decisions that in MY opinion have do nothing be bring on recession, give your nation trillians in debt, and destory any positive image that the United States may have held on the Global Community.

Yes. Mature you are. Lets laugh.

You seriously need a course on Cultural understanding, Global issues, Sensitivity and Compassion and Adult Psychology.  Lets also though in Stats for good measure.

Mexico has its problems.  I know them well as I read about it on a daily basis.
But So does the American Government that currently holds office.

You say Obama and Clinton are a bad choice. I would say they are the only choice.  However I allow others to hold there thoughts without shoving down their throat mine and insisting that they are wrong slowly because I think I am right.

What a waste of time.

One minor point of clarification. If we use this reasoning that all people in this country are immigrants (regardless of how long they have lived here) then we must also lump the supposedly native peoples of this country as well. Did they in fact not cross a land bridge to get here?

If that's the case, then how exactly do we define "native"? I'm no christian, but we'd have to go all the way back to the proverbial Adam and Eve. I'd say a native is defined as the first surviving culture to live in any given area.

Thats exactly my point. I dont believe that the "we are all immigrants" argument holds up simply because once you are born here, you ARE a native, as you know no other place but this one.

I was born in this country, so I'm just as much a "Native American" as anyone else who was born here in the last twenty years.

Native means you were born there.  Our culture isn't entirely native to America, but some aspects of it are--by now anyway.  I'm native because I was born here. 

Surely. I was just making a hypothetical case for the sake of the argument. Despite being descendant from Irish and Polish immigrants, I too consider myself to be native to America.

FACTS man, FACTS.... you are like Michael Moore, Teddy Kennedy, and other liberals, you ignore the facts.

You said (and not very well, who taught you to spell?) "You say 8 precent of Mexicians have left there homeland, yet what does it say of American for the precentage that have feld the current America and the Bush government for life in Canada? There is a large precentage of your countries people leaving. So what does that say about where you are? If you want to draw conclusions based on that, look in your own back yard."

I checked the source, the the Canadian Immigration page.

http://www.canadaimmigrants.com/America.asp

Check immigration from US to Canada.

In 1996 it was greater than 2001, the only years shown. 1996 - CLINTON. 2001 _ BUSH. Man - you are screwed up....

Let's put that into perspective, 250,000 about each year. Since 1988 if that was the same, that would be about five million, about half the number of Mexicans who came here. Oh, BTW, they went to Canada legally... And those 5 million are out of a country 3 1/2 times the size of of Mexico. We had less than 1% go to Canada. I wish it were about 4% and they were all liberals.

"just like I laugh at the US with Bush as a leader and his decisions that in MY opinion have do nothing be bring on recession, give your nation trillians in debt, and destory any positive image that the United States may have held on the Global Community"

Can't spell, can you? Must be a French Canadian...

"You say Obama and Clinton are a bad choice. I would say they are the only choice."

Just shows you how wrong you can be... And BTW, if you are not an American citizen, butt out of our business. Our president is our business.

You are probably some 13 year old kid in California who thinks he knows something... Get this, YOU DON'T...

Can't spell, can you? Must be a French Canadian...

This -- coming from the genius who gave us:

---

Actually I am against the fence. Dig a mote, put in piranha's.

---

-- S

Word. Evacuate the cute girls and burn Quebec to the ground, eh?

FACTS man, FACTS.... you are like Rush Limbaugh, Jack Thompson, Karl Rove, and other conservatives, you ignore the facts.

First off. You're spelling isn't flawless either. And until it is I suggest you refrain from picking on other people, lest I go through and pick out every grammatical and spelling error you've made.

 

Second, 2001 is when everything went to shit under the great Emporer Bush. So having just those two statistics means nothing. You're ignoring the majority of his term, and by doing so your facts are no better than anyone else's. Anyone can take statistics and skew them in either direction, I'm aware that this is done by both liberals and conservatives, but it's annoying when someone pretends like their "side" is better and more "honest."

 

By overstepping his boundaries in a very extreme way, our president became the concern of every nation. He's a loose cannon, and I'm almost surprised he didn't declare war on the EU. I'm sure he would have, but he only inherited his Father's obsession with the middle east. American interests are no longer at heart. Our president is a C average moron who only got the job by cheating, and because he's loaded.

Actually Brandre I am a 25 year old Canadian woman living in Ottawa.

Also, even if I am not American, American politics affect me, and I have every right to my opinion of that state of America.  We are America's biggest trading stop, we have the largest unprotected boarder in the world.  I am affected by MY friends and MY family going to SERVE for America's War.  I am affected Economically by what happens in the US. I am affected by the political situation in MY country and its relations with yours.

So no, no I will not butt out.

Also, Calling me a French Canadian because I can't really shows how weak your arguements are.

I was illustrating that American's left America.  I did not say that more American's left.  Your Economic situation is not as dire as some of those whom live in poor areas of Mexico.  I do not ignore the facts. I read constantly, things from all over the world.  I didnt give you facts. I gave you obersrvation, my insight and my opinion.

Also, just because I have liberal or left leaning views does not make me more dishonest, inaccurate, or more unlikley to check my facts. It does not make me less educated, it does not make me foolhardy, it does not make me wrong.

If just makes me different from you.
And I will thank God that I am different from you.

Brandre is Mindsay's wannabe George W. Bush - a mindless, embarrassment  (in every sense of the word) to the human race, and someone that should be obviously pitied.

Don't take anything Brande says too personally. He is just trying to get under your skin. That's about the only thing he has to offer.

 

Well said!

"America is just as corrupt as Mexico."

Actually... as bad and as crappy as our government is... it still at least works fairly well.  There is corrupt that is entirely self-serving, and their is corrupt and people-serving.  Huey Long (a governor of my state, Louisiana back in the day) was corrupt... extremely corrupt... but he did a whole lot of good things for Louisiana, particularly Baton Rouge and LSU.  He got stuff done.

The Mexican government?  They are not only corrupt but incompetent.

You are speaking in generalities here: "it works fairly well"? Well for who? "He did a whole lot of good things for Lousiana"? Like what, and who again did "these things" benefit?

We're entering a recession with likely global repercussions, and a big reason for the economic problems are the actions of the repeated administrations around market de-regulation (such as predatory lending) and the more general catering to corporations. Bush is a particularly vile example of this. So should I be concerned about the "corrupt"  Mexican government or an administration that has contributed to the current economic climate around the world?

Okay, to talk about Huey Long--he built the State Capitol of Louisiana, built the "Old" Mississippi Bridge in BR establishing it as a major player as a port.  He had Tiger Stadium built, not to mention many other things he did that caused LSU to grow.  But there is no doubt he was corrupt.

I'm sorry, but the US government works better than Mexico's government.  Let's just take law enforcement as an example how bout?   

And you're so steeped in your controlled little world that you can't see a good joke when it slaps you in the face. So the logical path is to slander an entire country with your ridiculously uninformed opinions... Damn. Now that's what I call a good choice.

I'm pretty sure you just said that mexicans break the law because they're mexican. I'm sure I could write an entire essay on why your opinions are not only wrong, but outdated...but they wouldn't mean a thing. So while I could spend 30 minutes crafting an ingenious reply that you would no doubt just ignore, I'll do something much more simple.

 

You sir, Are a narrow minded, worthless imbecile. May your prickish ways earn you a long stay in hell. (If there is such a place)

No, I didn't say that. You are pretty quick at stereotypes. I said they break the law because they live under a dirt bag government that doesn't enforce the law, most of the country is lawless.... It is a formed habit, not something innate.

Woah. Woah there buddy. I mean, you aren't my buddy. But still. Anyway. I wasn't stereoptyping. I was merely expressing what I believed you were implying. What proof do you have that their government is lawless? Because people illegally cross the border to escape poverty? I mean, I hate to burst your bubble, but making the lives of your family members and yourself is natural human behavior. I'm sure many more people would be willing to acquire the proper papers for a work visa if the process by which they could be acquired was expediated

 

You are assuming that just because there is a high amount of immigration, that their country is not only lawless but that the people are too. I periodically break that law, as do many god-fearing christian republicans. And if you tell me you haven't, and never have, you sir are a liar. Just because laws are broken, does not mean that people or their nation are lawless. I'm certain that there are cities in America that have higher crime ratings than cities in Mexico. I don't really know for sure, but I figured since you never cite sources for your little bursts of ignorance, so I don't need to either.

 

If laws were never broken. Laws would never be changed.

This guy is a poor man's Bill O'Reilly. At least, O'Reilly and other conservative pundits usually think things through. "Thought", of any kind, is apparently beyond Brandre's faculties.

<<<No, I didn't say that. You are pretty quick at stereotypes.>>>>

Coming from someone who unapolegetically refers to Chinese products as "Chink Goods" and supports John McCain's racial reference of "gooks" to Vietnamese people (see Eliot Spitzer thread).

<<< I said they break the law because they live under a dirt bag>>>>

a racial reference to brown skin...

 <<<...government that doesn't enforce the law, most of the country is lawless.... It is a formed habit, not something innate.>>>>

Yet he wrote the following above:

"They [Mexicans] like to break the law so they like to hav corrupt government that doesn;t enforce the law, look at the illegal immigration, over 9 million Mexicans have been willing to break American law. sounds like ..."

If a population "like[s] to break the law SO THEY like to hav corrupt government that doesn't enforce the law" that suggests that the enjoyment of breaking the law preceded the enjoyment of corrupt government. In other words, captainboring's charge holds true.

Now, I've tried to access Brandre's mindsay page the past day or so and it appears to either be on the blink or be erased or, possibly, he simply dissipated in a puff of smoke once we all realized that he's the collective unconscious conservative boogeyman.  Regardless, I feel I have to respond in a quick and less than meaningfully illustrated manner to this statement:

 

"You are pretty quick at stereotypes."

 

My rebuttal:  HWWWUUUUUUUUUUUUUHHHHHH!?  Brandre... I ask this rhetorically because I know the answer in my soul already, do you actually *read* your own posts, or is it more just sort of quickly typed out from one thought to the next without consideration of your previous mad scribbings and 'oh-SO-witty repartee?  That single, perfectly pointless statement is the utter platonic ideal of your own hypocritical utterances.  To wit: 

 

*YOU STEREOTYPE MORE THAN ANYONE ELSE ON THE INTERNET.*

 

 

When a country has a bad education system for the majority of the people, how many geniuses will come out of it?  Not too many.  Do stupid people make stupid choices?  Yes, yes they do.  That's why you can get many Americans to sign a petition to stop women's suffrage.

That's what Mexico has.  The rich stay rich by giving them a top-notch education while the poor stay poor by getting a sub-par education allowing the government to do what they want without much objection.

Oh and our government is far from perfect too.  If we weren't, would we be in the mess we're in?

Don;t give me that "our government is far from perfect" crap. It is. But on a real bad day when some Democrat is getting caught being serviced by an intern (Clinton) it is head and shoulders above Mexico.

I have been in the business world and tried to ship into that hole. Unless you grease palms with greenbacks you shipments don't make it. You want to concentrate on an occasional item. What I am talking about is every day, every transaction you make in this hole.... The place is corrupt...

Yes, the only scandal Brandre's simple mind can conjure up, as if the Lewinsky affair reflects the limits of corruption  in the United States. 

Ok, fine it's corrupt.  Why is it that way, and what can the US do to fix that short of an invasion?

Thank you hokay and captainboring for putting this "sir" in place. I was just about to say something along the same lines. I am a Mexican.  Do you have a problem with my corrupt government?
If there is a superiority-complex in America that is fucking up the world as we speak, it's because of people like you.

I agree with you wholeheartedly

So you are as screwed up as these three...

And I assume you agree with people crossing the border illegally....

See, I don't oppose having Mexicans come here to work any more than I have a problem with Canadians. What I have a problem with is illegal immigrants. If they come across as wetbacks, they should be sent back...

If they come across legally, with papers, not as WOPs (with out papers) I have nothing but the utmost respect for them. If I find one that is here illegally I will drop a quarter on them...

You assume wrong, and that is your mistake. You judge people too quickly, and too harshly, making you seem ignorant. That's why people don't respect you. You should watch how you criticize others.

I never said I agreed with illegal immigrants. Yes, in fact, Mexico does have a very corrupt government that doesn't enforce laws; and we are partly to blame for the US to have taken their extreme defense measures and put up a wall. However, that doesn't excuse your nation for having chosen to do the cold treatment. That has never gotten anyone anywhere. Like sir Mikhail Gorbachev said, why don't you guys start spending your money in more ways to actually help your relationships with other nations, not strain them? The illegal immigration is not just Mexico's fault, your unjust immigration laws are also to blame. You are one of the hardest countries, if not the hardest, on citizenship and residence procedures, it's ridiculous. Then again, I believe you said before you weren't exactly in favor of the wall, so I think I don't need to continue further.

While it's true Mexico is corrupt, in reality corruption is everywhere - it exists on a much larger scale in your government, actually. Starting with your controlled media, only showing what is convenient for your citizens to know, and not what is actually happening behind close doors. At least Mexico minds its own business; and doesn't go around playing the false prophetic hero, destroying smaller nations that didn't deserve an invasion to begin with.

It's sad that while I have heard many politics and candidates in your country speak live, I have never heard any one of them propose something truly beneficial and sacrificing for the sake of the world. It's always about you; your education, your security, your weapons, your veterans, etc. You guys don't realize being one of the most developed countries in the world also comes hand in hand with being an example to other nations, not an oppressor. You are practically hated everywhere in the world, did you know that? Why do you think that is? And as senator McCain said, if you're the "true leaders of the world", then start to fucking act like a venerable leader should. Acting to reduce your alarming rates of contamination agents that contribute to global warming, for starters.

I'm sorry if this is offending more Americans like you. In all honesty, this really should not be taken personal - but we should learn to accept our mistakes, all of us, before we move on to try to change something in the world for the better. Every country has its faults. You might as well deal with it.

Quite a few Americans these days are unhappy with the way things are. Republican, or Democrat. And to be honest, I'll be the first to admit that I couldn't become a United State citizen, if I weren't granted it by blood. There's no way I could pass that test.

 

And I'll gladly put people in their place, friend.

Very well spoken. 

Why should it be easy to immigrate to our country?  It's not an alien's right to come into our sovereign nation.  It is a courtesy that the citizens bestow upon aliens to become citizens themselves.

Sure, you have a good point. I'm not saying anyone should be able to immigrate to the US with not problem, that would be catastrophic. But there's also no need to be so highly demanding; other countries are more reasonable when it comes down to immigration. Like Canada, just to put an example. I'm just stating an opinion.
The thing is, the problem of illegal immigrants is both Mexico's and the United States' faults. Mexico is more responsible, I admit. Still, that doesn't make me think of the US as being all righteous about the issue.

Still though, the US is technically the victim of the crime.  Just because it is your opinion that it's just too hard to legally come in to our country, doesn't mean that anyone who thinks it's not fair has every right to come anyway.  I don't know if I think Canada's immigration laws are strict enough.  Ours should at least be enforced... but they're not.  I don't really see how you can blame the US for Mexicans wanting to illegally come into the country.  I guess for having a nation twenty times better than theirs?

More than the US being to blame for Mexicans wanting to come in illegally, they're to blame for not solving their conflicts in a humane way. That's what I accuse the United States of, for being a nation that is arrogant, over-rated and universally corrupt. I can't wait for China or the next developed country to take over.
I can see that you are just another one of those Americans who are too quick to criticize smaller countries and not accept why their nation is actually going to come to its knees in a very near future. I have nothing more to discuss with you.

whatever problems our government has, and it has many...it's still the best system on many levels that exists.  and the american people themselves are kind and caring people.  no-one rushes to anyone else's aid in the face of disaster than american citizens...on their own time and out of their own pockets.  you certainly don't hear much about the chinese doing that....the government or the people.

 

andre is a complete idiot with no pattern of logical thinking and apparently a racist to boot...but he is not representative of *all* americans. 

You have nothing more to discuss with me?  Because you want to assume you know my beliefs based on a few sentences?  Actually, I see the US as in a very precarious position.  But when I look at the rest of the world, I take note that there is NO WHERE I would rather live than in my nation.  I'm actually not particularly nationalistic... I think there is plenty wrong with America--and the federal government officials do not have my undivided loyalty.  You want China to take over?  Are you absolutely serious?  China: the nation that has been supressing religion, of all types, and other freedoms that we enjoy in America and for the most part, in the free West... including Mexico. 

How is the US not handling conflict with Mexican illegal immigrants in a humane way?  It's not like we even enforce the laws we have in place as it is.

Where have you travelled? I have travelled throughout the world (save Asia/Australia), and I can say there are lot of places that are a lot safer to live than the U.S., places where there is less crime, poverty, and with an higher overall standard of living; places where the architecture is a lot prettier, where the people are a lot friendlier, and where there is less divisions in the population (rich/poor, race, gender), and the same freedoms as here (and in fact, where there are more freedoms given that there are more standards/safety regulations against hazardous or shoddily constructed protects; where consumer safety takes precedent over corporate profits). What is it about the U.S. that makes it so great to you?

I wouldn't consider China one of these great countries (at least, not under  the current government), but
China supresses religion "of all types"? How so?

You didn't name any place you know.  I know there are places comparable to the US in lifestyle, and all those other wonderful things.  But that is not the only reason I would choose no where else to live.  There are certain cultural aspects to living in the US that I personally enjoy. 

I know that the Chinese government has opposed the Christian Church and has tried very hard to stomp the religion out there.  I however was under the impression that Christianity didn't have the corner on the religiously persecuted market. 

Some of the western countries I have visited/and or lived include Denmark, Belgium, Holland, England, France, Greece, and Canada. All are much lower (violent) crime and have comparable standards of living, and certainly less income disparities.

The statement "[b]ut when I look at the rest of the world, I take note that there is NO WHERE I would rather live than in my nation"

makes it sound not only that the United States is leaps and bounds ahead of the rest of the world in terms of standard of living/quality of life, but that you are basing this point on an informed, personal experience - i..e., having visited much of the world.
That's why I was asking on what basis do you draw this conclusion?

What cultural aspects of the U.S. do you enjoy that are absent in other parts of the world?

"I know that the Chinese government has opposed the Christian Church and has tried very hard to stomp the religion out there.  I however was under the impression that Christianity didn't have the corner on the religiously persecuted market."

Oppose in what sense? I am asking that you be precise in your terminology/argument, instead of making general statements around "suppressing" and "opposing" religion. I say this because it can mean a lot things to oppose or suppress religion and that it could be argued that the U.S. (around polygamy/communal sects) may also be guilty of this.

What about China's policy distinguishes it from us and other countries that "suppress" and "oppose" religion/certain religious practices?

When you say that the U.S. "is the victim", be clear about who is and isn't being disadvantaged by illegals.

Needless to say, the primary victims here are the people desperate enough to risk deportation or even death crossing into a foreign land ilegally. It's not just Mexicans making the journey;  thousands also cross every year from Cuba and Haiti on little boats. Many illegals would rather work for below min. wage than go back to their home countries. They are risking their lives to survive or provide for their loves one. Desperate situations demand desperate measures. Few people just decide one day to pack up and leave their homeland and risk so much for the sake of the adventure.

The next "victim" here is the American worker, because illegals bring down the cost of labour (which means that companies can afford to pay either less to Americans or replace them with illegals). This means more profits for big business, why is probably why there is little outcry from sectors of the business establishment towards illegals.

It's good to look at the bigger human picture rather than treating the issue as a matter of "us" vs. "them".

America is nothing if not her citizens--so we are victims in that regard.  But I said "technically" a victim because it is the law of the US that is being violated.  The illegals are breaking the law and violating a sovereign country's borders.  It isn't the same as a victim of assault because a nation is a bit different... I was using what words came into my mind to relate the point.

It's not as though I don't sympathize with people desperate enough to immigrate for any reason.  However, that does not make it OK for the US to allow the breaking of the law.  We have to consider whose rights come first in a nation--and I believe that the rights of the citizen should be upheld by a nation first.  Why should a government look after people who are not their own before their citizens?  It's not like i'm an isolationist... sometimes I wish the US would butt out and take care of matters at home first though.  Kind of like what Jesus said about removing