SO WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK, SHOULD HE BE ABLE TO KEEP IT OR NOT? DO YOU THINK THAT IF THEY WERE CHRISTIAN SYMBOLS, THE CROSS, OR THE FISH THAT IT WOULD BE AN ISSUE?

PERSONALLY I THINK THAT IF IT IS NOT TRASHY, OR PORN AND DOES NO HARM THEN WHY THE HELL NOT?

 

 

Pagan symbols on fence must go, city insists

By MELISSA WALKER • mewalker@dmreg.com • June 10, 2008

 

Robert Frost once said "good fences make good neighbors."

Apparently not when the fence is used to express religious beliefs.

A Des Moines couple say city officials have attacked their pagan religion and their civil rights after a complaint from a neighbor led to a notice to remove symbols that had been painted on the fence. Officials said the symbols are graffiti and must be removed.

"Those are religious symbols; they're not mean or obnoxious in any way," said Ryle MacPebbles who lives in the 2000 block of Southeast Sixth Street. "I just don't like them telling me my religion isn't anything.

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"When they start making it personal with my religion, I'm sorry, we'll take it to court," said MacPebbles, a member of the American Pagan Church.

The MacPebbleses said a city inspector approved the fence earlier this year. The symbols - a bull that represents food blessings; letters of ancient Germanic alphabet that mean good health, protection and larger perspective; a pentagram; and other Celtic paganism symbols - were on the fence when it was inspected.

City inspection officials said that may be the case, but a permit and development inspector reviewed the fence, not the neighborhood inspections division, which issued the graffiti removal notice after a May 8 complaint.

"When he said the fence is OK, he said the fence is constructed correctly," said Ben Bishop, neighborhood inspections administrator. "Our position is this was graffiti and it was inappropriate."

City law defines any "inscription, drawing, picture, letter, number, symbol or other written communication" on a surface not intended for such use as graffiti. It does not specifically address religious symbols. MacPebbles said he painted the symbols on the outside of the fence to protect the family's home and to ward off evil energy.

Phil Delafield, the city's permit and development administrator, said he did not know whether the inspector had reported the symbols as graffiti, but normally wouldn't.

"They were not reacting to the symbology of the fence," he said. "It's not within our area of authority."

The MacPebbleses appealed the removal notice on Monday. "Don't you think being a good neighbor you should have put them on your side of the fence?" asked hearing officer LeAnn Ducey, who will decide whether the symbols must be removed.

Rachel MacPebbles said an attorney told them they have a case and to contact the American Civil Liberties Union.

"Pagans have worked hundreds and hundreds of years to have the same rights as Christians to avoid persecution," she said.

 
   

 


 
 
ubu13 on
Re: WHAT DO YOU THINK?
I think we are living in a very weird, very paranoid time period.  Any time you are outside the norm, you face persecution in some form or another, it seems...conform, conform, conform!!!!
myroost on
Re: WHAT DO YOU THINK?
how true, we are taught all thru public school how our society espects us to be and how we are to think, history as I discovered after I left school and ventured out to learn from other sources is all painted from the perspective of the victor, and never really a balanced view as to what really went on................

but comform we must!

thanks for stopping by, .........as you noticed my blog keeps changing, but everytime I get something, my profile, and calendar part  winds up somewhere in the bottom...........whats up with that, so I try another and there it goes again

ubu13 on
Re: WHAT DO YOU THINK?
What was weird about your blog today is that you had Myclette's picture on the top????

I am having a terrible time with mine.  I can't upload a photo for my profile anymore.  I used to have one, and thought (stupidly) that I would make a change.  Now I get a blank!  It won't upload my photos.  And it says "am I really trying to upload a photo????" then it says "Mindsay doesn't think so..." ha haha...as if I don't know what a photo is???  Oh well, frustrating but we can laugh about it.

 

And yes, you are really a clear thinker, Myroost.  We were all indoctrinated in school - not just through high school, but it continued through college, though lots of the instructors by then were trying to tweak us into thinking a little critically.  But once in the real world, the pressures are incredible to conform.  From what I have been told, this isn't nearly so much in other countries, particularly Europe.  They probably think we are all lemmings, especially in the last 8 years...

myroost on
Re: WHAT DO YOU THINK?
i tried to pick out a number of themes and when I sampled them it was fine when I picked them they got all fubared. I tried so many times to put a header on and would not let me, i finally settled with this.
ubu13 on
Re: WHAT DO YOU THINK?
I think the message is that at this time we shouldn't try to change anything because NOTHING seems to work right now on Mindsay. For the life of me, I can't get a photo back on my profile, even those I have had on here previously. BTW, haven't looked at your post about Friday the 13th, but damn, I had totally forgotten!!! Thanks for the reminder ;~)
Happy 13th.
Namaste, A.
eyesthefuture on
Re: WHAT DO YOU THINK?
I think that only the Swastika or some overtly racist symbol should be disallowed.
myroost on
Re: WHAT DO YOU THINK?
I agree, those kind of symbols are extremely harmful, the pentacle, is not, I see it alot in tex. and on many law officers badges, it represent many things that are positive ,especially when the points are upright.
BoboBegone on
Re: WHAT DO YOU THINK?
He should be able to keep them...
myroost on
Re: WHAT DO YOU THINK?
agree! thanks for stopping by! 
atticsmouse on
Re: WHAT DO YOU THINK?
Of course, as a pagan I think he should KEEP THEM. What right do these people have to say that our symbols are grafitti? Granted, they are spray painted on, perhaps he should paint them on with colors rather than just black spray paint, but he will still get the same kind of hooey from his uptight neighbors who probably whisper to eachother "that guy there is a devil worshiper keep your cats away from him" HAHA sorry but I have heard that about myself a time or two funny thing is I love cats! Smiley
myroost on
Re: WHAT DO YOU THINK?
agree, but I do think they should be tastefully and artfully done. but then i have seen some tatoos on people that look like grafitti, and some with horrific scenes on them .What these people  with these tatoos will go through as they age will be something to see.but then that is another topic. THANKS FOR STOPPING BY!
atticsmouse on
Re: WHAT DO YOU THINK?
lol! I used to work in a nursing home and I can tell you wrinkled tattooed skin is not pretty, I shudder to think of what mine are going to look like. All of mine are pretty tame though, minnie mouse is my favorite.
myroost on
Re: WHAT DO YOU THINK?
you know , I have worked in a nursing home for 14 years as a cna and Med. Tech, and Activity director, I have only really noticed 2 tatoos on 2 different women and one on her shoulder, not pro.done, but it held up well in that location, these 2 women were the neatest women, one was a motorcycle momma who had the longest fingernails, in fact she caught one on fire lighting her cigerette LOL ! any how these women were more 'worldly' than most of the granny's there, and had a better attitude than the others as well, the granny church women and men by n large were not the nicest of people.

I don't have a tatoo, I will though when I get the access to a tatoo parlor, none in my town yet, and on the road, we are always so rushed. but i personally like few here and there that have good art work in them, I don't like them all over and all crowded on the body, you can't tell what they are.

niassa on
Re: WHAT DO YOU THINK?
I look at it this way.  He can keep them.  Just like all the Christian neighbors that have statues, crosses, doves, and the such which are symbols can keep theirs.  If he doesn't get to keep them, then all those things have to go right out into the garbage like his symbols do.

 

Do they look trashy?  You betcha.  But hey some of the dayum crosses and stars ya see during the year are pretty trashy also.

 

See yet another reason my redneck rezed out pagan ass perfers living in the country.  The most neighbors complain about is if our dogs are running!


 
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