First off, The Transplants new cd comes out today.
I haven't left the house in a while and am beginning to feel like Howard Hughes in the germ free zone.
Christians and atheist revolutionaries alike should see the movie Luther. I wish people would have flocked to see that instead of the passion.
I am currently in a hate love relationship with a book. Half the time I am engrossed in the book and half the time I want to throw the damn thing at the wall and then smite it with my holy wand of smiting. Tom Wolfe, I hate you. The book is called Hooking Up. The parts on Bob Noyce and Neuroscience are awesome, but his constant left blaming and over quoting of nietzche makes me and my amiable buddy, the ghost of Neitzche, very sad.
I may be an atheist and you can immediately hate me for it, but I believe I have a faith that far surpasses the commonplace christian. I have faith in science and math in particular. I have far more faith in predestination than the average Calvinist did. I believe that everything that happens on Earth affects everything else. Butterflies wings movements affect stock prices in China through chain of events. I believe if you could calculate every variable on earth for as little as fifteen seconds, you could theoretically figure how each thing affects another and another until you had the ability to see exactly. in mathematical formulas, into the past and future. Which is harder to take faith in emotional faith or scientific faith. "oh crap a ceiling tile is about to fall on my head, I had better move" or "That ceiling tile is falling at roughly nine meters per second squared minus the drag of wind; the fan is causing such-and-such air current which will cause the tile to pass through this path and land there with me unscathed." People ask me all the time, if you believe in predestination why do we have choices. Choices are rational created by enviroment interaction and genetics. Then they ask, why do I feel like an observer. To which I respond, well science has yet to figure that out yet, but neuroscience is working on it. Then people like Tom Wolfe say see that's god, and I say see that's something we have yet to explain. When no one knew what the sun was, the sun was god. When people didn't know why things happened to them, that was god (or the devil). But I'm here to say that science is god and the devil. Everything is and always will be perfect and how it should be. Then they say well then I can do whatever I want if choices are random or not real. But I say since it is real to you, then you should use it. Like children who's parents think it is genetic for boys to not pay attention in school, take them to the doctor, the prognosis is ADD, and they give the kid ritalin. But the kid can sit infront of video games for hours straight. The problem isn't Attention Deficit Disorder, but a child acting that way is genetically normal. So what is a parent to do? Get off your ass and chastise or build a rewards system for the boy. Change the reaction that the enviroment gives him. Lets say in my over simplified example that the natural genetic reaction is for a child to reach for food and eat it. Lets say you have Lasagna everynight and you have it sitting out, ready to eat, and the child everynight reaches over and takes a big handful, disturbing your ability to eat. What do you do? You make the lasagna really hot one day and when the boy reaches in he burns his hand. His genetic motivation is to eat, but he is burned, sparking his genetic need for self preservation, that teaches him not to reach into lasagna at this time because he might be burned again. Problem solved with genetics and enviroment interaction on the side of the parent. Working with the more complex mind is more difficult and takes more consideration and trial and error, to which I have one word of advice to parents. Use the soap method. Don't punish your kids too much or hold onto them too much, or the bar soap of will fly out from your grasp and be much harder to pick up. But don't be too loose or you'll let go anyway. My advice is more loose than hard which allows them to develope a trust and friendship in you, learn from their own mistakes, and adapt easier socially. All of that could be predestined though, from birth to death, nothing happens that could not be accurately predicted with the greatest technology ever. My faith is complex and most people shrug it off as nothing. Predistination coupled with the belief in choice, where if you feel you have choice, use it to make the best decision possible. What you would choose is ultimately predetermined even if it doesn't feel that way to you. Many people aske me about  how hard it is to change beliefs, especially since it has been pressed on every person since they were born if they are christian, buddhist, cherokee, or whatever. But let me show you about logic and enlightenment...
Do you think that you have ever touched anything? Yes. Well I'll tell you right now that you haven't. You definately don't believe me. Take it on the atomic level. First touch a wall next to you. First logically you recognize that both your hand and the wall are made up of atoms, correct? Ok. What are atoms? They are a proton and neutron core/nucleus with electrons repelling each other and flying around so fast that they seem to make solid shells. The electrons that make up the shell repel each other for a reason because if any electrons ever touched you could cause a nuclear reaction. So they work like magnets of the same pole. But have you ever thought about when that atom comes into contact with another atom. The electrons still can't touch or boom.  So you what end up outside of these shells is repelling energy to keep other atoms from invading each others space where possible nuclear reactions could arise. You end up with tiny super powered magnets, that are so close together that you can't tell that they aren't touching but riding on the force of each others repelling energy like magnets. You have never touched anything. Not a cat, dog, lover, nothing. But what about sense of feel, those are atoms detecting the descriptions of the push of the repelling energies. Mind boggling isn't it. Well I was once a christian and I have totally changed my views. It came in phases though. First I was a christian who didn't believe in the works of Paul. I have a real problem with the new testaments devotion to Paul. He never met Jesus! James, Jesus' cousin, was supposed to lead the church after Peter stepped down. James wanted christians to be Jews who believed in the messiah. Paul said to heck with that and began rounding up many many gentiles. People have argued over the reasons of Paul, half say Paul thought Jesus was returning soon like tomorrow and he needed to round up as many people to save as fast as possible, and half say that he found a church in which he could actually rise to power. The gathering of gentiles and breaking of Jewish traditions done by Paul caused many things. Modern christian Pastors, Ministers, and Fathers will telll you that old testament law was created to keep the jews sanitary and thus don't matter today, but many Jewish Rabbis will tell you that the rules did have a sanitary reason but were actually so that Jews could remain a distinct culture. James did not want unkosher practices or uncircumsized men to join the Jewish church and asks Paul to stop allowing these practices. In reply to this Paul "has a dream" where Jesus comes and tells him that he is the last sacrifice and the old rules do not matter anymore. James cannot rebuke this or his own followers could question the divinity and abilities of christ. In fact Paul has James, and for some part Peter, in a hole. Plus Paul has a better author, Luke. Luke wrote of Paul and often travelled with him. After travelling with Paul for a while he decided to strengthen Pauls stances on Jesus by writing his own book, Luke, without ever actually having met Jesus and having limited contact with those that actually did. This politicing in the early religeon left me with no trust for the books of Luke and beyond, erradicating the new testament except for the first three books. I still want to see an eastern orthodox church session. I did not stick to this credence for longer than a year when I dropped christianity as a whole and began to look for a new religeon. Islam looked good for a little while, Jews don't really take transfers, Buddhism was good, Hinduism was too difficult, and many other religeons failed me. So I was an agnostic for awhile. I studied and studied and studied religeons with the supreme want to be religeous, but alas science came instead. Probably around my junior year in high school, I officially declared as an atheist. Soon I found science to be an ever unfolding and self correcting religeon. Instead of the paved in stone thousands of years ago unchanging faith of religeon. The math of the Universe excites me and gets my heart going much faster than any day in church, church camp, or mission trip, that I have ever been on. It is real with provable basis.
I want to be president some day and many people have told me that they cannot vote for a person who doesn't believe he has to answer to a higher power, but I must answer to a higher power, even now. If everything I do affects everything I do then I must try and create a positive impact as best I can. Everyone and everything around me is my higher power. I must answer to the results of my actions. I defy some of Neitzches beliefs. Neizche thought that "god is dead" and that without the presence of god people would be so wieghed down on guilt that they would be useless because you he thought that you can't have morals without a god to tell you do or do not. But I tell you that you are God. Neitzche didn't see it. Everyone is their own god. You change everything around you every day. You single handedly control the world. Most people see life in their little submarine of their life's occurences and not outside to the waters that their life is affected also. I tell you, you should have morals because you want what is best. The classic gods are but examples of how to live as defined by a culture. Look at the God and then look at the peoples under that god. There are many similarities I assure you. Now you get to be the god of your choosing and I hope that the great machine of the universe has made you want to be good. Neitzche was scared of the atheist future, because with his education he could not see the adaptation of man to fulfill his atheist role as a benevolent creature.
I see a bright future. A future that will make Tom Wolfe cry because people will have personal freedoms and the respect of other peoples personal freedoms.
I hate prejudice and people who disdain other's freedoms. I think though, that I'll choose to rant on this some other time.
Anyone who likes my writings and wishes to discuss/argue about any of my ideas, IM please or email me at Tempest4422@hotmail.com or just plain leave a reply.
 
   

 


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fyreph on
Re: Atheism, The Rant
Though I may not be Athiest (I am agnostic myself) I do believe in your view about faith and such, you are nominated <3
katryn on
Re: Atheism, The Rant
Have you heard about the law they are trying to pass in the UK that goes toward a freedom of religion type of thing...to stop people from acts of hatred toward other faiths.

From what I got ( a little bit of news on the BBC ) the wording is towrad hatred, nothing that should stop freedom of speech...but...it is not just aimed at acts, but words...and I cannot really understand how it could help, any acts of violence should already be taken care of...and while I too hate prejudice and such, (oops, I said hate)...no one can say or control what people like or hate...

I think I will see if I can find anything on the law...

noescape4me on
Re: Atheism, The Rant
I would have to disagree with you.....escpecially on the point Everything is and always will be perfect and how it should be. If you call the shit that we are living in and the wars and 9/11 and all of that perfect then you are completely off your rocker. And following what you are saying then I would have to conclude that that is what you are infering. If science and nature are perfect as you say...and eveything that they do has and effect on something else then the outcome of what its effects would be perfect too....No this world is so far from perfect that I find it almost laughable that you would say that. If everything were perfect we would have answers eveything is science would be logical and explainable and we as humans have barely touched the tip of the ice burge in scienece.
firebrandrunner on
Re: Neoscape4me's comments
Here is how the perfection boils down. Everything in the world is affecting everything else, and if one thing wasn't coorect then the whole thing would be different. Look at it like bowling. All the pins are set up and you roll your ball. Whatever you hit is what you were going to hit. if one thing was different, the pins would have fallen differently, but they didn't and you can't change that. You can just try and change the way you act in a similar situation. But you will never be able to change what has already happened, because it is now plopped in the middle of the universe's mathematical movements. Now bad things happen. But they are what they are and they are part of the duality of life, thus the devils of science. Bad things will happen. It us up to every indivdual to try and change things as best they can. You mistook my meaning of perfect, but then again that too is perfect. -Thanks for the reply
excrucio on
Re: Atheism, The Rant
9/11 was a hoax.
noescape4me on
Re: Atheism, The Rant
How do you figure that one.
excrucio on
Re: Atheism, The Rant
Mine eyes didn't see it, and I don't know any victims/kin.  Therefore, it's a hoax to me.  Just like brine shrimp.

noescape4me on
Re: Atheism, The Rant
So you didn't see it and you didn't feel the effects so then it didn't happen....sounds like you are in denial my friend...that is like saying that since you didn't see a certain event in history and you dont feel the direct effects that it never happened.

excrucio on
Re: Atheism, The Rant
Is there something wrong with that?

noescape4me on
Re: Atheism, The Rant
Yes....Its crazy...it's ignorance....It's ignoring all the pain that everyone else has suffered....It's denial...and although you may not have lost anyone you still feel the effects....gas prices....taxes.....all this about the lost of scoial securitt...and many others things in your daily life have change maybe not in a huge way but just about everything changed in this country with 9/11 whether you choose to see it or not is your choice.
excrucio on
Re: Atheism, The Rant
I think taxes are a hoax, too.
noescape4me on
Re: Atheism, The Rant
so your into tax avasion then....becareful your all you know I am with the IRS "be audit you can be" lol
smkpoles on
Re: Atheism, The Rant
Sir,

I would like to make one argument against one out of the many things you said.  In regards to your comment that science is now God, or god, or gods, and or the devil...I fail to see your rational in making that statement.  While it is true that many of sciences inovations have brightend our view on the natural world I don't belive that you can completly dismiss the THEORY that a creative creature, or God, is actually real.  Now as a scientist I am sure you can see the benifit in expolring absolutly every option and or theory open to you when attempting to explain why something occures in our world in the manor that it does.  I have to say that it is somewhat arogant of you to assume that science (a process of thinking wich has been known to be wrong from time to time) is 100% correct and there is simply no way for you to belive that a higher creature is real.  Now back to my argument.  If we are to look at this in a scientific way wouldn't we have to see God (or whatever you chose to call it) as just another valid theory?  Due to the fact that this in an provable theory to either side, religous or not,  it may seem kind of pointless for me to be pointing this out to.  Also it is rather silly of me to assume that you're going to even give my ideas anymore thought seeing that I am a religous individual and apperantly flaud, in your thinking, due to that fact.  However, I must agree with your observation of mathmatics being a beautiful thing.  Being able to understand our universe using ones mind is always a beautiful thing.  (opinion comming) To me our sciences and mathmatics are great venues to see the work. glory, and power of the one to wich I refer to as God (YHWH).  Just in the intrest of full disclosure I am a college student, going into my 3rd year.  I am studying Secondary Ed (History) and also a double major in Theology.  I truly hope you respond to this I feel that a discussion with you on this topic would be stimulating

-Jared Y.

firebrandrunner on
Re: Atheism, The Rant
First off let me thank you for your comments. Now the thing about "science is god and the devil" is a neitzsche-esque beautification of words. I really meant that all good and bad is caused by the everflowing math of the universe. I don't think that my prime rudiments cannot be taking without god, which is called Deism which is of the Enlightenment, but that I feel that no such creator is needed to explain what we don't know. Everything we don't know now, someday we will know it. When know these things then we'll probably have new questions which many would shrug off on God. As your remark as to science not always being correct, that is why I love science. Many things we take as fact today will be laughed at by future generations. I see science as a magazine which corrects itself over time. Let's say the Magazine thought that all evidence points to Brad cheating on Mellisa, so the magazine publishes that. But later it is found out that Brad isn't cheating on Mellisa, they will recant and display the new information and discuss how they got it wrong. If it were written in a book the people would just have to discard the book and by a new one. What if someone thought this book was infallible and refused to let it be thrown away after it is thousands of years past date and not self correcting? What if they then tried to find the more metaphoric lines and dictate how these archaic texts not only relate to the story of Brad and Mellisa affects everyone that came to listen. And what if, even further, they pushed these books to replace Magazines and other people's books about Brad and Mellisa. God didn't write the bible, men did. Men wrote the christian bible originally in seperate books, but a counel of Jews before and a counsel of Romans later decided which books to use and what or wouldn't be cannon. I can trust a work that refuses to change, or that was intended to be a secondary form of law. I do believe religeon a crutch like you said, "flawed." Religion is the opiote of the masses. It is a way of control and to instill morals because many think without a powerful father figure that could destroy you telling you not to do something, without a points system declaring whether you can gain entrance into heaven or hell or someother ending place, or without some place to land when you die. When you die you cease to exist that is all. The most important part is that the individual can come up with morals based on helping people instead of being told what to do by a divine creature. It is a crutch to believe that you are part of some creatures plot so that you can feel that he directing your life for the better and you can go to sleep without worrying about it. Praying instead of acting never caused the desired results. When I was a kid, I used to pray when I lost something that god would return it to me or help me find it, and subsequently everytime I got up and actually looked for the thing I'd find it. Why? Not because some deity intervened but because the math of the universe caused me to look around in trial and error form in usual places all the while the synapses in my head were trying to remember where I put them and my eyes scanning likely areas. I hope I have not offended you, but that is my belief system. Both my parents are christian and I was an alterboy. I have many christian friends, agnostic friends, and atheist friends, but often some of my christian friends expressedly do not wish to hear what I have to say. I wonder why? I hope I will not offend you nor cause you to discontinue to rebuttle my arguments. -Thanks for the rebuttle
smkpoles on
Re: Atheism, The Rant
ok this is an intresting view point.  I have to say that I think we are thinking virtually the same thing.  Rather then worshiping God you "worship" mathmatics.  Now can I say for this argument that perhaps God created the earth, and it being an all powerfull being could it not have created the universe gorverned by mathmatics?  I realise that i have the luxury of beliving in an aunipatant (sp?) God so I can really explain anything just by that, however if this being's power is all incompasing then perhaps it did creat us to be governed by these natural laws...is this perhaps God's hand?  Now as far as you thought of religon being a crutch I don't really wish to delve into that becuase you already have an opinion on that, and it being an opinion that is no point in discussing that.  In our dicussions I wish to keep them as "scientific" or scholastic as possible.  thanks again

Jared Y.

firebrandrunner on
Re: Atheism, The Rant
God the computer programmer theory. That god came and designed evolution and such and then let it go. God does not interfere in daily life he just made the rules like gravity to keep everything in check. This is one of the stepping stone views that got me to where I am today. The Deists of the nineteenth century as part of the enlightenment believed that god made the world like a clock and then walked away. This belief can be explained quite eloquently by Alexander Pope. The rational and theories of the Deists also sparked empiricism and tabula rasa. When I was a christian, I often debated other christians who believed in the literal translation of the opening of Genesis. You see Adam was the first Jewish Man (in genesis god is Polytheist because of his denouncement of having other gods before him and not that he is the one true god and there must be other gods making people because Adam and Eve have Cain and Able, Cain kills Able, Cain goes and starts his own city, this would not make sense [another problem I have with the Bible] if Cain didn't have a wife and made his own babies [but in the bible people don't have any concept of human reproduction women just become "known" by the man and god puts a baby in them so maybe Cain was known by god and was the first and last man to ever reproduce]). Adam also was a cave man. We must believe he is stupid because he listens to his wife who listened to a snake and does the one thing that the guy who throws lightning bolts told him not to do. So god whent to explain to Adam his evolution. God starts off by taking full credit and not giving any credit to his angels or other gods that may have assisted in the project and by explaining the millineas it took to cause the Big Bang (then there was light), formless liquid is divided and sky is made (space dust has a gravity core and  then becomes magma magmas chemical reactions create the atmosphere), Adam lacking the neccessary skills to not think geocentrically skews the time table of the sun's v. the stars' v. the Earth's creation, Adam does remember the order of evolution of animals pretty well, then he evolved water organisms (fish) and dinosaurs (birds), then evolution of mamals and such other land creatures, then evolution of Adam. God, an omiscient being, does have some communication problems with caveman Adam, especially when it involves time. God then tries to explain to Adam that he is made of atoms (or that he evolved from a single celled organism, take your pick) but Adam doesn't get it so God tries metaphor. "see this grain of sand you are made of (or evolved from) something smaller than this piece of sand." and to which caveman Adam repies "Ug, I made of sand! Yeah, I a made of sand." the god says "No, no, Adam you're made from something small- what are you doing with that? Don't scratch their in public? Ah what the use!" So the bible comes to say made from sand. Then god tries to say by using the rib that Adam is equal to her because they are made from the same parts and genetics but perform seperate functions to which Adam replies "Nah, dog that is whack! I'm bigger than her for shizzle and she's my property-izzle." Then the newly made and newly offended Eve runs off to the big Parmegranit Tree (sorry it was not the european beloved apple tree) to hang out with serpents. This allows an omiscient and neophyte creator to build the earth scientifically whithin christian bounds. Two side notes, number one: it is kind of amusing how god grows up (this can be another god then but not now theory) In genesis he is new at this thing. Then god decides that he can control most everything and everyone by causing miracles and such just as four through seven year olds do by throwing tantrums and such, by Job he is an a spoiled preadolescent, Job is righteous and does everything right and God still chews him out, and god figures out that Job is his Moral Superior because he suffered and retained his faith. So God, wanting his Superiority back, decides to become a man, Jesus, in order to suffer and still remain faith. God spends his teenage years helping people on an individual basis, then goes through the right of passage of suffering. Then when God gets back he decides in a policy of nonintervention so he can cause no one suffering with his wrath. Then Neitzche whent to visit god, checked his pulse, and cried "Got ist tot". Number 2: I always wanted to make the supreme bible, which would mix every religeon together. So many things are paralleled in each religeon. Like the great flood for example, Zeus flooded the earth, noah rode in a boat, and something in gilgamesh, and much more. I wanted to write it purely as amusing fiction, but the tedious research do to the unfair amount of religeons throughout history was appauling, I don't even one as omnipotent as the christian deity could write one. Here that god, It's a challenge! For me though, I choose not to take the beginning of the earth with two hints of deity because I see that as something that although we don't have definitive answers now, we will probably get them someday. I hate it when people say, see science doesn't have the answer so that's god, like Tom Wolfe about human consciousness in Hooking Up. Science is always answering questions with hard evidence not finger pointing at what answers aren't there and saying like a four year old "see! look! God! God!" and then when that question is answered pointing at something else and saying "Shucks, but look over there, see, see, God! God!" Another theory I just thought of I think I will entitle the Terminator theory. Lets say since genetically we have a want for a higher authority, that some god did program that into us. But lets take the word god differently, what if there were hundreds of gods and some of the happened to be in the field of robotics, and decided to make creatures that made them happy and were self reproducing. They started simple like anyone in a scientific field, and built one celled organisms and put them here. Then they made trees and animals. Then they decided to make some creatures that were similar (or maybe not similar but with higher order high speed enviromental feedback recieving operating systems) and made them their servent. Then let's just say a plague comes and kills these original inhabitants of earth/galaxy/whatever and these servant robots are left on their own. They're still programmed to serve but they don't have anyone to serve. Over time they forget about these masters (or semi remember them) and create religeon and it feels their programmed need to serve. Maybe even these Gods/Creators/Frankensteins made the universe as well as sort of a cage for us to play in. Or what if we are (as is mildly logical in it's lunacy because of the logic of the math) just players in a super highly advanced MMORPG or programmed universe like the Sims and we just think we are real because we are programmed to do so. Maybe someday science will figure out that if you go three hundred feet above ripley's field and fifty feet nort north west you'll be at the base of a huge invisisible door and if you knock god will open the door and say what took you guys so long, sorry I knocked over your tower of babel I was just a spoiled preadolescent back then. Maybe science will find God until then to me the genetic code for the want of god is a survival mechanism for the belief in order that his horrendously misused and god isn't real.
Books you should read:
The Antichrist (which is not satanic by any means) and So Spoke Zarathustra by Neitzsche
and The Answer to Job in which Jung psycoanalyzes god
smkpoles on
Re: Atheism, The Rant
first off I have to say that I am offended by you comparing my view points on crationism to that of a child.  In the future let's try and keep this civil.  Second I have to say that your dialouge between Adam and God was amusing but slighly off.  You're synopsis of the Diest theory is close, but not quite what I belive.  See I can't be a diest because I belive that God still works in the world (they belive he left it immidiatly post-op).  Now as for your psychoanalytical summry of God throughout the bible.  Personally I think you are far off.  First off the Bible IS full of mistakes, it was written by men.  Your idea that God was being prepubecent in Job is a horrid interpratation of that Book.  First off, as a student of theology I warn you about using this book, it's a very dificult book to interpret.  Now, in Job satan (or the accusor in the Hebrew) goes into the heavenly court room, we see God as judge and the angels (including the satan's) as the lawyers, they go forward and give testamony either in our favor or against.  God then allows the satan to inflect suffering on Job, so far as not takeing Job's life.  The satan does just that, destroying his life, killing his family, and desimating Job's crops and animals.  Now Job's friends tell him that the reason he suffers so is becuase he must have done something to anger God, no we (as lookers on) that this isn't true.  Eventually Even Job's wife accuses him of having done some evil, at this point Job finaly gives in and recants God, and blames God for doing these things to him.  God then chasties Job for daring to blame God for his suffering, I suggest reading this part, it is very beautiful poetry.  Now this book is most likly not a historical book, we'll never really know if it is or not, but you are waaayyyy off on saying that God is being prepubecent.  Job is mostlikly a patrarch...maybe even before Abraham.  Anyway, this story is meant to show us how God's plan for this world is beyong out comprehension, as is most of the ideas and reasons for this univeres (the unanswerd questions of science), also the book was added to the canon becuase the theological message to it is that the things we suffer are not for evils we've done, but rather just because sometimes they happen.  Also you're earlier comment about the canon being created by a counsel of romans...you're wrong.  The counsel of Nicea was convened inorder to define the faith.  There were so many diffrent theorys and ideas of God and Jesus that they felt they needed to finaly set it strait as to what the faith should be.  The counsel was made up of church leaders from all around the world at that time (greece, rome, africa, europe, and anitolia).  Anyway I'm done ranting now.  I was never attempting to get you to belive in my god or anyother god's but to merely admit that it is a viable theory to the universe. 

-Jared

firebrandrunner on
Re: Atheism, The Rant
I'm sorry I didn't mean to offend you, that is the problem with just words. I never took to call your  belief in creationism childlike. I meant only that I don't like people who point at the failings of science like Tom Wolfe and say look God. I meant by this article that creationism can walk hand in hand with my beliefs even if I don't want them too. I didn't call you childlike unless you are Tom Wolf. I didn't write the part about the growing up of god I just gave a synopsis to the noted psycologist Jung's book, The Answer to Job. I am glad you included the Arian controversy in your reply, to which I answer that you are a one hundred percent correct. Though some evidence says that the council did choose the official canon of the church, most of the harder evidence states that it did not. Even though I'm sad that the counsel choose to unify faith instead of allow freedom of practice, but they did hve to stop civil war and they allowed Luther to emerge a millinea and a half later. I will even admit than in the realm of advanced probability that it is much more probable for a god to create everything thatn a series of events. You should see my response to dingleberryman's math at his blog http://www.mindsay.com/comments/dingleberryman/4 . I have read Job and the poetry is beautiful with god listing all the miracles he has created. But ultimately god must realze that it is his fault for allowing Satan to cause suffering. Again this is Jung. Job in my own belief is that god does not have a plan, he just pretends he does. As you can tell by Satan come up to god on a whim and asking to do this, and god not saying no it's not part of my plan, or god going to satan and saying I have a plan here. Though I do believe the original intent of this scripture was to keep from the hindu idea of Karma from creeping into the hebrew because most Jews at that time believed that those he did good works god would reward them. I don't believe and never have believed god still works in the world, I don't blame bad things on demons and such like pre-enlightenment Christians. I don't believe in witches and their use of Satan to hex me. If god were doing things in the world, I do believe he'd take credit for it, or cause miracles with a voice (which by voice, I mean like Moses or any of the other people he uses to get his message known) to tell people why things or happening. I just don't see it.
smkpoles on
Re: Atheism, The Rant
Thanks for apologizing, all is well again   Anyway about the last thing you said...about the messengers of the LORD not being around.  I've often thought, if we had an individual such as Elijah, or Moses, or Abraham, or any of the others God is said to have spoken through, would we belive them?  I mean I think that our lack of prophets in our mordern day is due to the fact they they're all sitting in the dark corners of the subway station and smell like fecal matter.  A good example of this was John the Baptist.  He wore a camel hair robe and ate locusts and honey...can you imgaine how smelly he was?  Or his teeth?  Even for that time the prophets (most of them being acetic) were pretty hard to be around just due to the nature of the life they lived.  Anyway I'm rambling.  I understand you're choice not to belive in creationism but thankyou for admiting that it is still a ligitamte theory.

-Jared

terpsichore on
Re: Atheism, The Rant
That was very well written, and rather heart felt.  You are not the first atheist I've encountered to express these frustrations and reaffirm that you do, indeed, have faith - just not in what others would like you to.  Anyway, an intelligent arguement - well done.

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