There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so. -- William Shakespeare

 





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I know that many people are frightened

“I know that many people are frightened and angry because of the actions of the Trump administration, and rightly so. It's very tempting to express that fear and anger by insulting or verbally abusing those who voted for and/or support Trump. But doing so, while it might make you feel better in the moment, is not going to have any positive impact.

 

(this post stolen from a friend’s FB)

 

“Have opposition criticisms of a leader you support, be it Obama, Bush, or Clinton, ever convinced you to change your mind? Or did the attack on "your" leader simply cause you to harden your heart further?

 

It may take a while, but I think the most effective approach is to simply ask, and keep asking, consistently, continuously, and in many different ways,

"How does this specific Trump administration policy make you personally better off?

 

We are not going to change minds by calling Trump a racist, a misogynist, or a demagogue. Many of his supporters may very well prefer a whiter, more male-dominated America, where educated "elites" exercise less power. To put it in terms my Silicon Valley friends will recognize, to Trump's supporters, these are features, not bugs.

 

But many people voted for Trump because they felt that he was the only candidate offering them potential solutions that would better their lives--less globalization, fewer immigrants, more jobs for "real" Americans. Trump's solutions are unlikely to work. Cajoling a small number of companies to preserve a small number of American factory jobs is not going to help more than a infinitesimally small proportion of people who voted for Trump.

 

I believe that Trump and his team realize this, and believe that their best chance to keep those voters from realizing that the Trump administration is going to make their lives worse, rather than better, is to keep them distracted by trying to focus their attention on "enemies," be they foreigners or those coastal liberals who look down on "real" Americans.

 

I'm not arguing against protests or condemnation of the Trump administration. These seem to me to be justifiable and potentially useful. But reaching out to people who voted for Trump requires a different approach. And in a year or two, when they are still working the same job (or not working) and their lives have not improved one iota, I think they may very well start to listen.”

 

 

 
 


 
schencka on
Re: I know that many people are frightened

I think it’s been refreshing. People voted for the guy to shake things up, in a kind of “I’m mad as hell and I’m not going to take it anymore” way, like in that film _Network_. People voted, democratically, for the guy who went up there and said, “Let’s quit letting these immigrants in!” That’s basically what the executive order said, right?

Of course, I think it’s short-sighted to constrict immigration for an open society like our own, but Trump’s whole schtick was to put himself in opposition to the way things have been, which, we can all agree, served just a handful of people.

I think the thing to fear isn’t the Trump administration per se, but the likelihood that his critique of a corrupt Washington DC/Wall St/etc elite was actually right. Because if things really are all that bad, and the government as such serves people so poorly, with what does that leave us?

morte on
Re: I know that many people are frightened

yeahh, i'm no stoic, i'm not going to suffer silently for years in hopes that i get to have my smug moment in the sun.

whats happening goes so far beyond republican vs democrat. this is literally the rich, but uneducated, elite duping scared, or uninformed people into supporting something heinous by intentionally attempting to only provide manipulated information (thus the nonstop nonsense regarding what the media should [not] be reporting). 

i am not going to approach trump supporters for the chance to debate; but i am going to be just as loud, opinionated, and ideally better informed than they are. 

you can't cherry pick ethical dilemma.

i mean, after all, hitler did rebuild the roads in germany. 

dustball on
Re: I know that many people are frightened

I agree that we should not go gently into that good night. (Is that still a saying?)

 

Take tonight for example, I was invited to a protest in Berkeley that involved a loud dance party outside a venue where a trump supporter was giving a speech.  I declined.  That will only make the trump people MORE solidified in their stance; those damn liberals being kid sand disrupting civil dialogue.  Which, pretty much, would be true.

 

America is great because there is competition of ideas.  

 

Get into debates.  Argue.  Point out flaws.

 

A fucking dance party to piss off trump supporters is only going to support trump indirectly.  It is giving them exactly what they want, in fact. 

 

Being “loud” has its place, but we need to think critically what sort of activities will accomplish our goals.  

 

We gotta use our heads, not our thorax.

 

 

morte on
Re: I know that many people are frightened

it is still a saying. 

i am firmly in favor of nearly any positive, useful action against the current regime. is the dance party you're describing the initially peaceful protest that became a riot? and it was against a guy who literally considers himself “a super villian,” and is an editor of the “alt-right” breitbart website.

at my core, i think people should be protesting. people who are at risk for becoming voiceless, especially. people of color, people in the lgbtq community, are at risk for having their (hard earned) civil rights violated by many of the things trump is doing, and i honestly consider apathy an act of compliance. 

people should be angry, and they should be heard. its not just protests. betsy devos just lost the votes of two republican senators because of the amount of complaints from constituents. that means that people aren't just dancing, or smashing, but also calling, writing, making sure their feelings are being acknowledged as people. 

there are lots of ways to make a difference. you do you. 

dustball on
Re: I know that many people are frightened

> is the dance party you're describing the initially peaceful protest that became a riot? 

 

Yes, the one all over the news, trump tweeted about it and everything.

 

I’ll simplify my position with a single question: Do you think the Berkley protest helped or hurt our cause?

morte on
Re: I know that many people are frightened

it brought people with similar agendas to the same place, so it helped. any time allies can come together, it promotes further discussion, and ideally, better planning in the future. every revolution starts out clumsy. 

considering what he tweeted regarding berkeley was a threat of pulling their federal money – which was a bluff, since he has no legal ability to do – it seems to me that people who are anti-trump would appreciate any show of solidarity against him. at least thats my position. 

dustball on
Re: I know that many people are frightened

We gave the conservatives buckets full of ammunitions to use against us.  Fugitively speaking.

 


morte on
Re: I know that many people are frightened

when an entire political structure is based on manipulating facts into propaganda, any action is giving them fodder. 

if people don't do anything, then it reinforces that, “this is third generation feminists and lazy people who just want to sit at home, because these libtards all have aspergers.”

like i said, you protest however you feel is most effective. just don't shut down how other people are doing it for themselves. 

dustball on
Re: I know that many people are frightened

if people don't do anything

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma

when an entire political structure is based on manipulating facts into propaganda

Trump supporters believe the same about us.  Have you read RV’s postings?

any action is giving them fodder

No two actions have the same results.  It is illogical to assume that whatever we do, it will disturb the right just as much, therefore we should have no limits to our protests.

just don't shut down how other people are doing it for themselves

I won’t, but the law will.  Violent protests are Not OK.  I’m sure your position isn’t in support of violence, but that is how it is coming across to me.

morte on
Re: I know that many people are frightened

read into it however you want. 

i do see what rv posts, unfortunately. most of it seems to be the short-sighted, angry posting of an older male person who, from what i can tell, has little to no interaction with anyone besides other middle aged-to-senior white, middle class people. (he's also the guy who gave someone in their late 20’s grief over the amount they're repaying for their education, soo i don't exactly look to him as an “in touch” kinda dude. or a particularly positive, or empathetic one.) so i'm not sure what point that's attempting to make, aside from bringing another blogger into this debate. 

and since “no two actions have the same results,” how precisely can you guarantee that riotous protests are inappropriate? look at history, at every civil rights-based upheaval that has happened – there has been violence. look at this country's (very recent) history of abusing the peaceful protestors. have you seen footage of a child being pepper sprayed by the cops? because i have. i have also seen police pepper spraying perfectly peaceful human beings who were attempting to help an elderly lady (who had already been pepper sprayed) move away from the dangerous area she had ended up in. 

how long do you expect people to take physical, verbal, and ethical abuse without feeling the need to respond with violence? 

no, i don't want a violent revolution, but history has yet to show us an entirely peaceful one, based on logic, and mutual respect, unfortunately.

 



 
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