One day every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, and yes, you are a part of that everyone...why not sooner than later, as that day will not be one of your most joyful!

If Heaven is full of those judge-mental people, then I won't go in..I keep to the curb..
the last place i want to spend an eternity with(a TRUE definition of Hell) are the people who call me "sinner"

Bonnie can't understand why nonchristians think her "truth" and "joy" are intolerance and bigotry, Christopher.

I'm with you.

it's because they are so afraid that they are wrong..
that there is no afterlife..the notion for MOST HUMANS is too terrifying

"as that day will not be one of your most joyful!"

FEAR it!!

"I'll pray for you"

"Bow down, kneel, prostrate yourself, and worship, or I will torture and torment you forever!"

Merciful God.

exactly

Christians believe that they themselves are sinners.

You may call it whatever you wish.  But you should also be aware that when you say absolute truth is unknowable, you yourself are speaking absolute truth.  And when you say you won't tolerate intolerance and bigotry, you yourself are an intolerant bigot.

Not so, dear.

I've never said absolute truth is unknowable, nor do secular academics; we say only that we don't know it yet.

I've never said I won't tolerate intolerance and bigotry, only that intolerance and bigotry are common among Christians and Moslems.

"Only Jesus! Only Jesus! Only Jesus! Only Jesus! Only Jesus!" Gee, I wonder why nonchristians confuse this "truth" with intolerance and bigotry.

"The truth isn't known yet!"  "The truth isn't known yet!"  "The truth isn't known yet!"  "The truth isn't known yet!"  "The truth isn't known yet!"

And we know this to be absolutely true!

Gee, no wonder Christians confuse this "truth" with intolerance and bigotry.

You've got the absolute, final answer, Jim. The rest of us admit we don't. It's a big difference.

And your admission that you don't have the final answer is your absolute truth.

What's "absolute" about it?

I say that Jesus is the Truth, which is what He Himself said.  You say that is not true because the truth isn't known yet.  But how do you know the truth is not known yet?  Is it possible that Jesus really is the Truth?  If you deny the possibility that Jesus is the Truth, which you do, then you lay claim to knowing everything--absolute truth.

When you say that there is no absolute truth, you claim to know all truth. 

Is the Tanakh the word of god? I don't know. It seems to have been written by fallible humans. Is the Gospel the word of god? I don't know. It seems to have been written by fallible humans. Is the Koran the word of god? I don't know. It seems to have been written by fallible humans. Is the Bhagavad Gita the word of god? I don't know. It seems to have been written by fallible humans. Are the Upanishads and Vedas the word of god? I don't know. They seem to have been written by fallible humans. Is the Book of Mormon the word of god? I don't know. It seems to have been written by fallible humans. I've read part or all of these books and considered their claims. Is there an absolute truth? I don't know. The believers say the truths in their holy books of god are absolute. Hmm, well, they can't all be absolutely true, right? When there are competing and contradictory claims of absolute truth, reasonable objective observers call them "relative." It's an inference from the contradictions. I don't understand your attributing to me the claim that "there is no absolute truth." I don't know if there is or not. You do, right? You do know that there is an absolute truth, and you know what that absolute truth is. You're unable to explain how you know. An inerrant text? An ancient authority? A personal subjective experience? The believers of all the "holy" books I mention above cite exactly the same kind of "evidence." Unpersuasive. Your reasons for not believing them are no different from their reasons for not believing you. To me you all seem very similar. Because you all make similar claims and offer similar evidence, I have doubts about all your claims. I think of you, Jim, exactly as you think of them. Academics call that "relativity." Do you make no distinction at all between relative truth and absolute truth? I thought you did. I thought you claimed knowledge of absolute truth. Do you deny this? I make no such claim. I don't know! Do you think my saying "I don't know" is the same as my saying "I know"? Do you think my saying "I don't know" is the same as my claiming "I know all truth"? You translate my simple admission "I don't know" into the claim "I know all truth." This is ridiculous, gibberish. Frankly, it's unethical. If you are willing to transform my words into their opposite, why should anyone trust your interpretations of biblical text? Do I know the absolute truth? No, I don't. Do you?

Good.  Since your belief system allows that there is an absolute truth, I wonder, then , why you are so intolerant when I say there is one.  

Do you know the absolute truth?

Did you answer the question?

How do you know that what I say is "stupid"?  This indicates that you must know what absolute truth is.  Your belief system doesn't really allow for any absolute truth but your own--you just feel warm and universal by saying that it does.

Answer my question. I answered yours.

Look up at your first response to this post. Yes, Jesus said that no one comes to the Father but through Him.  You already know the answer to your question.  Why are you asking it?

Now answer my question: How do you know that what I say is "stupid"?

I know that Jesus is the only way to the Father, that He is the way, the truth and the life.  The truth, not a truth among many.  So, yes, because I know Him, or rather, I am known by Him, I know Him who says He is the truth, the absolute truth. 

In order for you to say that the Christian claims for knowing the truth are “stupid,” you therefore must know what absolute truth is and is not.  Although you claim that your belief system allows for an absolute truth, it doesn't allow for any absolute truth but its own.  You just feel warm and universal by saying that it does.

You equivocate because you know you do not know the absolute truth and do not dare to say plainly that you do.

Did you bother to read my reply?  I said that I know Him who is the truth, so therefore, yes, I know absolute truth.

In order for you to say that the Christian claims for knowing the truth are “stupid,” you therefore must know what absolute truth is and is not.  Although you claim that your belief system allows for an absolute truth, it doesn't allow for any absolute truth but its own.  You just feel warm and universal by saying that it does.

He is the truth, and He loves you.

O.K.

Unpoular but true. I've found myself adhering to the principle "well if that's how you believe then okay" and left things alone just for the sake of avoiding argument. I still don't feel forcing my beliefs on someone else is a correct approach, in my opinion it only drives people away, but when the door is opened, I do proclaim what I believe as truth for everyone whether I am agreed with or not. I have yet to get into a debate, and I don't know if I would welcome one, because my faith is new, and I'll have to admit there are many questions I still have about many things. Coming from a life of what some might consider "brainwashing" christianity, I've finally found the simplicity of a loving God to be a boon for my soul. I just take it one day at a time and let the Word and God's voice be my conscience and guide.

You're totally right.  People are drawn to the Lord through His kindness.  I'm not opposed to debate, if it is done in kindness and love, as well.

Simply loving God--that's my goal, too.  It's not always easy, but it is simple!  

Well said, Jim! I wondered what Bob would have to say about it! But after all, He created the heavens and the earth; without Him there was nothing that was made that was made.  He breathed into us to give human life.  Without him we are nothing, would not exist.  He is everything...so yes, it is Jesus, Jesus, Jesus...works for me!

I join you in worship and praise for Him, who alone is worthy.

Please read and tell me what you think of my newest poem, when and if you get a chance?