**Warning: The following passage could be deemed blasphemous by many.  If you have heart problems, back problems, are pregnant, or are incapable of rational thought and can’t even understand that when an exact replication of our world gets destroyed in movies like Deep Impact, the real world doesn't get destroyed, then don’t ride.**

As promised, below is a book excerpt related to my post on Tuesday.  It was written prior to the Holy Blood, Holy Grail controversy, so perhaps it needs a little update, but I believe the content still works.

I am only including the parts that are relevant to our recent conversation, so some story will get lost.  Also, passages from a book never really work on their own, and this is no exception.  There is a history between the characters that you don't know, as well as actions that have occured before this scene that you aren't privy to.  The characters turn out to be very different from how they portray themselves in this scene, the intoxication of one of the characters plays a major role in an upcoming plot point, and, most importantly, the dialogue serves as foreshadowing for a big revelation toward the end of the book.

With that out of the way, here is the scene:

    Even though his stomach was full, Andrew Wilson was staring at Mary Engel hungrily as he held the restaurant door open for her.
    “And so you did or didn’t like it?” he asked.
    “Oh no, it was good,” Mary responded.  “I very much enjoyed it.  I just don’t think The Da Vinci Code is the book of the century.  The different elements that Dan Brown makes up are fascinating, but the writing didn’t particularly blow me away.” 
    “What exactly did he make up?” Andrew asked as he slowed down to let Mary walk in front of him.  He watched her ass bounce up and down gingerly.  He licked his lips.
    “He made up everything,” Mary said, craning her neck to see if Andrew was behind her.  “The Knights Templar hiding the existence of their secret society through Leonardo Da Vinci’s artwork.  Mary Magdalene being married to Jesus.  Her presence in the Last Supper painting.  The Holy Grail’s hidden location underneath the Louvre.  The church burning women at the stake to take away the power of femininity.  These were all elements of a story that he invented.”
    Mary tripped over her own feet.  Andrew rushed behind her and placed his hand against her back.              “Whoopsie daisy,” she said, trying to shrug off her embarrassment.
    “So none of that was real?”
    “No.  I mean, maybe.  But no one knows for sure.  Dan Brown thought he was just creating some interesting narrative, but maybe he’s right.  Maybe everything he says is true.  We can never tell for sure.  Maybe God came to him and told him the truth and asked him to write it down in a book.  Maybe God told him it will be the greatest story ever told.”
    “Are you taking a shot at the Bible?”
    Mary opened her mouth to laugh but only a slight gurgle escaped.  She swallowed hard and then said, “No, of course not.  I’m just being facetious.  But what I love are the books that dispute what Dan Brown writes in his story.  Books like Breaking the Da Vinci Code and The Truth Behind the Da Vinci Code.  Have you seen these?”
    “I think so.”
    “I love them.”
    “Why?” Andrew asked, missing the sarcasm in Mary’s voice.
    “Because they are disputing fiction.  They are telling the ‘truth’ about lies.  Dan Brown has admitted that the book is made up.  He says he was just telling a story.  And yet these people are publishing books disputing what that story says.  Of course it isn’t true.  He made it up!”
    Andrew quickened his pace and was now walking alongside Mary.  “Lower your voice,” he told her.          “You’re practically shouting.”
    “How did they ever get this crap published?” she yelled, ignoring his comment.  “Can you imagine going to a publisher and saying, ‘I have a book that proves everything in The Da Vinci Code is a lie.’  The publisher would laugh you out of the building.  He’d say, ‘Um…yes…that’s wonderful.  But we already know it’s a lie.  He admits it.  It’s fiction.’”
    “Well I think the point of those books is to explain to the gullible world what is true and what isn’t.  I mean, Dan Brown may admit that it’s fiction, but that doesn’t mean some stupid people aren’t going to believe it.  You know what I’m saying?”  Mary shook her head in agreement.  “You just said the writing is nothing extraordinary.  So then why is the book so popular?  It’s because of what it says about religion.  People believe it and controversy brews.”
    “You make a good point there.”
    “I know I do.”
    Mary’s forehead wrinkled as if deep in concentration.  When the wrinkles smoothed themselves out, she said, “But that’s really ironic, because they are that gullible world you just mentioned.”
    Andrew stared inquisitively at her, asking her to elaborate without opening his mouth.  She obliged.
    “Think about that hymn that goes, ‘Jesus loves me, this I know.  For the Bible tells me so.’  Are you familiar with it?”
    “Of course.”
    “Whoever sings it is confessing that they believe what the Bible says because the Bible tells them to believe it.  How naïve is that?  Christians are worried that people will believe the things The Da Vinci Code says just because The Da Vinci Code says them, but one of their most famous hymns says to believe the things the Bible says just because the Bible says them.”
    “Well, they have other reasons to believe what the Bible says.”
    “Listen, the fact remains that we don’t really know what’s true.  Say I showed up at the Vatican tomorrow claiming to be a pregnant virgin.  How could they dispute my claim?”
    “Well, you have two kids for one thing.”
    “Okay, so bad example.  But you know what I mean.”
    Andrew turned toward his car but Mary kept walking the other way.  He ran over to her and placed his hand on her back.  He led her through the parking lot to his car.  She kept talking, not noticing the shift in her direction.
    She said, “A woman could claim immaculate conception, she could claim she is carrying the baby Jesus, and the Vatican would demand DNA samples and all that, which they should, but they would demand proof.  They would say, ‘Where is the proof?’  But where is their proof?  They have no proof that what they believe is true.  Maybe Dan Brown has written the real Bible, and everything they’ve been praying to is wrong.”
    Andrew moved his hand down from her back to her butt.  He pinched it playfully.  Mary blushed and slapped his hand away.
    “Who do you think you are?”
    “Just someone who finds you irresistible.”
    She blushed deeper.  In truth, Mary had liked the pinch.  She liked Andrew’s boldness, especially since he had seemed so shy earlier.  But more than anything else, she liked the fact that he was showering her with attention and compliments.  She would never admit this, but she had made many attempts to get Todd to start noticing her again.  Her most recent effort involved buying low-cut jeans that hung off her hips.  She also bought a sexy red thong to wear underneath the jeans so the string of the underwear would rise up over the denim, an event that proved embarrassing since she had her two kids with her.  Todd has yet to comment on them.   
    “So I guess you aren’t big on religion?” Andrew asked.
    Mary didn’t answer.
    “Mary?”
    “Huh?  What?”
    “So I guess you don’t like religion then?”
    “I wouldn’t necessarily say that.  I think religion is a wonderful thing.  It brings people together.  It gives them something to believe in.  Something to look forward to.  It can be great.”
    “But.”
    “Well, let’s just say I only go to church to appease my husband.”  
    They finally reached Andrew’s car and he opened the door for Mary.  She crouched down and stepped into the passenger seat.  She didn’t mean it to be, but Andrew saw it as an act of seduction.  She arched her back sexily as she crouched down.  Andrew moaned to himself as her smooth, perfect neck passed by his line of sight, and he took a large whiff and sighed as her scent filled his lungs. 
    “You know,” she said.  “I appreciate you listening to me.  Todd never lets me ramble.”
    “I don’t know why.  I find you fascinating.”  Mary swooned but Andrew didn’t see it.  He was walking to the driver’s side of his car.  He flung open the car door and sat down.  “So, you ready to go?” he asked as he turned his key and brought the car to life.

The scene then gets into some action that is irrelevant to the issue at hand, so I will fast forward to the next part:

    Andrew Wilson stared intently at Mary Engel, who was talking adamantly in the car seat next to him.  Nothing could make him take his eyes off her, except the blaring horn of a car.  His attention turned to the streetlight ahead of him, which was green.  He started moving forward.  He looked back at Mary, who looked at him and blushed.
    “Did you hear me?” she asked.
    “Yes, yes, I heard you.  Keep going.  I’m listening,” Andrew assured her.
    “But are you considering what I am saying?” Mary asked.  “There are more books refuting the freakin’ Da Vinci Code than the Bible.  Think about how crazy that is.  No one is living their lives based on the writings of Dan Brown.  Is it really that threatening?”
    “I’m sure the church feels threatened.  You said it claims the church burned women at the stake.”
    “But who do you think the people disputing the book are?  They are people who live their lives by the Bible.  They are so hypocritical.  How can they have any idea what the Bible says is true?  They are disputing The Da Vinci Code based on what is written in the Bible.  So they are in essence disputing the writings of one book that may be fiction by citing writings from another book that may be fiction.”
    “Well, many people don’t believe the Bible is fiction.”
    “But that’s my whole point.  It’s just what they believe.  There is no proof to confirm that what is written in the Bible is true.  And yet people who believe what the Bible says claim there is no proof to confirm that what is written in The Da Vinci Code is true.”
    “Yeah?”
    “What do you mean, ‘yeah?’  Don’t you see the insanity in that?  What if there is nothing to prove the legitimacy of the Bible because it isn’t legitimate?  What if the stories were simply invented by a bunch of good storytellers?  What if the authors of the Bible were the original Dan Brown?  What if they just created a great story, and then people started believing it to be true?
    “Then what?”
    “It would be the same thing.  It’s just that the authors of the Bible aren’t around to admit the stories were simply fiction.  Dan Brown is.”
    “Okay, but –” 
    “Maybe in 2,000 years people will look at The Da Vinci Code as their Bible, and there will be people like us having a conversation about whether it is real or whether some guy just made it up to tell an entertaining story.”
    “Okay, but the fact is millions of people live their lives by the Bible.  They don’t want some other book coming around telling them everything they believe is wrong.”
    “No, I know.  You’re right.”
    “So what’s your point?”
    “I don’t know.  I guess I don’t have one.  I’m just kind of thinking in my head, wondering how we come to believe what is real and what isn’t.”
    “Is this conversation real?”
    “Maybe.  Or maybe it’s a mirror of something that happened in some parallel dimension.”
    “Huh?  That doesn’t even make any sense.”
    “Yeah, I know.  I don’t know.” 

They go on, but about something that will only have meaning to people who have read what proceeds it.  Since none of you have actually read the book, that means it won't have meaning to you. 

So what are your thoughts on their conversation?  Which of the two characters do you find yourself agreeing with most? 

Per the end of Tuesday's post, is this conversation really controversial?  Will it stir heated debates between people who agree with it and people who are adamently against its message?  Does it exist solely to be controversial, or is it just a silly little stretch of dialogue that isn't good enough to affect emotion?

We don't know Dan Brown's true intention, but I can tell you mine.  I love books with deep foreshadowing.  I love symbalism and meaning.  The only problem with using foreshadowing in mainstream literature (as opposed to the great American novel that will be dissected for years to come in English class) is that the scene that does the foreshadowing can be boring for the reader until he or she reaches the scene it was supposed to foreshadow.  The dialogue in the above passage, and the movements the characters make, are serious foreshadowing for a very important moment, but I didn't want the foreshadowing to be boring for the reader before he or she got to that important moment and realized the bigger meaning.  Hopefully people will find this discussion on The Da Vinci Code and the Bible interesting, and hopefully they will also get the symbalism when it comes.  I tried to make the best of both worlds. 

And hopefully soon you'll be able to read the entire book and tell me whether I succeeded or not. 

 
   

 


Comment Page: 1 2   [Next]
 
msbenefit on
Re: Brewing Controversy, Part Two
first of all, small correction (and i don't know if you intended to include it this way or not, since the mistake is more than common):  the immaculate conception refers not to mary's conception of christ, but rather's mary's mother's conception of mary.  as per the catholic doctrine of original sin, mary should have been born with sin, which wouldn't make her the unblemished vessel that the catholics believe she must be in order to carry the christ.  so the immaculate conception refers to the fact that, even though mary was conceived most naturally, god sent some sort of block to keep the original sin from being inherited by this child, mary.  she was, of course (according to doctrine), sinless from birth to death and therefore assumed directly into heaven instead of having to have her sins worked off in purgatory.  little theology lesson for the day.

 

all that aside.  i guess i'd say that mary engle's a little too overboard, and andrew a little too conservative for me to relate with either.  but it probably would be blasphemous to someone who would never want to consider the fact that the bible might have been made up.  and there have been christian apologetics for millenia that have tried to "prove" the validity of the bible and the divinity of jesus.  in the end, though, as mary points out, it's all a matter of faith.  faith that what you're being told is true, is.

 

the difference is, though, that jesus' message is something to rally behind.  and for those who believe in the resurrection and heaven and all, there's a self-serving motive to religion as well:  eternal life.  or, if you'd rather, for those who believe in hell and satan and such, there's a different kind of motive:  fear.  dan brown gives us nothing to rally behind, really.  so what if jesus was married?  what does that mean for me?  why does it matter if a bunch of old dudes were trying to keep it a secret?  in the end, they will be seen as foolish for making such a big deal out of nothing.  just as a lot of people see those who write books about debunking the da vinci code as being foolish.

semiomniscient on
Re: Brewing Controversy, Part Two
You have a point there about The DaVinci Code not giving anything to rally behind... All it really does give to rally behind is being anti-church... anti-everything-you-know-about-your-beloved-Jesus-mwahahaha! Some people do identify with that and rally behind it, but the rallying cry is something that they're deriving from a negative. It's against something, not for much of anything.

Besides, Dan Brown is a hack. Not a very good writer--and terrible with the facts. The DaVinci Code is a load of huey--although there were some early cults who did have some of the beliefs of this sort. It's not like it's anything new. People have been saying "I'm a successor of Jesus Christ!" blah blah blah since He left. This hooplah over the DaVinci Code is waaaay overblown.
booksay on
Re: Brewing Controversy, Part Two
Sorry, perhaps I was being a little too sublte for my own good.  Mary is feeding into the misconception that the immaculate conception means getting pregnant without sex.  I was trying to show that she doesn't know as much about theology as she thinks she does. 

Per your second paragraph, an upcoming book I'm going to write involves a Bishop trying to prove the validity of the Bible and a scientists trying to disprove it.  When the remains of Noah's Arc get discovered, and then explorers stumble upon what they believe to be the Garden of Eden, their conflict comes to a head.
booksay on
Re: Brewing Controversy, Part Two
And do you really think Andrew is too conservative, or is he just being the more rational one?
msbenefit on
Re: Brewing Controversy, Part Two
like i said, i wasn't sure if you included the immaculate conception error on purpose or not. 

 

andrew is too disinvolved, i guess would be more accurate.  i'm gathering from his vague responses that he disagrees, though maybe he's just more interested in getting some than the conversation. 

booksay on
Re: Brewing Controversy, Part Two
He actually has something entirely different on his mind.  
msbenefit on
Re: Brewing Controversy, Part Two
oh, thanks.  just tease me, why don't you?
wisconsinpunk on
Re: Brewing Controversy, Part Two
It's so damn amazing how stupid humans really are.  Here's the point, what it says in the bible, do we know it to be true?  I mean do we have any proof of it all?  No we don't, and that's why it's called faith. 

 

To me, if Jesus was married, or he got his freak on and had a kid, it doesn't matter.  Would it make him any lesser?  And those that feel it would really don't understand faith at all.  Things get changed to suit peoples will.  Look at the catholic church, there changing shit all the time, so if a grand religion got together and said, "hey lets make it so Jesus never got some pu-tang, and had a rug-rat"  and "We gotta make sure that it's never mentioned that Jesus married a whore" it wouldn't suprise me. 

 

Getting real:

 

So if Jesus did get some honey pot glory, and had a kid, and in fact married a whore. Would that not make him a more realistic sandal wearing, loving peaceful man who also just happened to be the son of God?   It changes squat, OK OK so it changes the bible, some things need to be added, like who kept that part out and why.  

 

They call the bible the book of life, so unless it's dead then it's really not finished yet is it?  More needs to be added. And who is to say that GOD didn't come up with the idea that NOW is the time for people to start digging into the meaning of the bible?  You know it does have some meaning to it all.  Are the books and the movies coming out blasphemous?  No, because in order for them all to be blasphemous it would have to done in the context of their work being accusing, and it's not, it's thoery.  It keeps us guessing, it makes us wonder, hell if anything it brings people together to look for the solution. It makes people read the bible more carefully, it tunes in folks who wouldn't normally tune in.   

 

People really must think God is some stupid guy.  Don't you think he knows how to use mass media to get his message through? HE INVENTED MASS MEDIA. He is the founder of it all baby!

 

Faith is faith, you can either have a strong faith or a weak faith, or have no faith at all.  But if you are of true faith, of strong faith then even if all of this is proven as fact it shouldn't matter. 

 

The bible was wrote by many people, and many more had there hands in it then we can possibly imagine. 

 

You see, if it is all proven to be true by some shape way or form, does that mean we should forget about the 10 commandments?  Does that mean it's all a bunch of hype?  Are there going to be churchs for sale in the paper?  NO, if anything people could relate to Jesus better, I mean he walked thousands of miles, cured people, casted out the devil from folks, was the King of Jews, plus he raised a kid and took care of a wife.  And talk about absolute forgiveness, he married a whore!

 

And Matt, you recently have seen the power of faith when your fiance's grandfather passed.  You felt it, it's pretty powerful stuff.  You have questioned your own faith, and thats good, it's good to question because then you learn.  And we all know that knowing is half the battle (g.i joe)

 

I think as humans we should keep exploring, keep looking for the answers.  But we also need to start coming together and stop shooting each other up.  It's sad, but if you think of it, we woudln't have very many problems in this world if we just worked together.  Starvation would be gone, the enviorment would be better, poverty would be wiped out and they would bring new episodes of all in the family.

 

The answer my friend is easy, the work getting there is hard. But we have time.

 

Time stays long enough for anyone who will use it. - Leonardo Da Vinci

 

 

booksay on
Re: Brewing Controversy, Part Two
Hey, the thoughts that you put in this reply are some of the exact thoughts that have been going through my head.  Things like God being well aware of this message coming out, and that people aren't giving Him enough credit if they think this "theory" would bother him.  Also, one of the characters in my book talks about how the Bible should have ammendments just like the Constitituion, because times change, the way people relate to times change.  If their book of guidelines didn't change too, it would be way too outdated and no longer serve its function.

And as a prime example of how things DO change, Mary Magdalene was never a prostitute.  The Bible never even describes her, let alone distinguishes her job.  The myth that she was a prostitute started a long time ago and still continues to this day, even though it isn't true.  What else do we readily believe that isn't actually true?
resable on
Re: Brewing Controversy, Part Two
While some of the slang and phraseology ( sp?) makes me cringe, I would have to say that I agree, in large part, to your response. And, as such, don't think I want to add anything at the moment. < Giving it more thought>.
resable on
Re: Brewing Controversy, Part Two
P.S. I was addressing Wisconsin Punk with the above. But in response to what YOU said, Booksay, I would have to agree about times changing and the relevancy of religious doctrine to the present. It reminds me of conversations I have had with Muslim friends about the clash between traditionalists and modernists as it relates to their faith. I don't think that the Bible is a complete work until life on this planet ends. But nor do I believe it was meant to be taken verbatim. I believe it is a useful guide and teaching tool for those who wish to learn its lessons, but it does not own exclusivity when it comes to being a teaching tool. Having faith in whatever one chooses to believe in cannot reasonably demand that faith be forever unchangeable. Life changes. Faith can change. We are supposed to question things. It is all part of a process, a purpose that each of us must decide for ourselves. I was raised to believe in the Bible, and have a love of it because of that. It is a rich resource as well as a symbol of faith. However, I no longer believe that a BOOK written by HUMANS ( who are, according to most Christian denominations, inherently flawed) is above errors - be they errors of interpretation or assumption or translation. I don't worship a BOOK. I worship an ideal that I have faith in.
booksay on
Re: Brewing Controversy, Part Two
Perfect way to say it.  I wish everyone believed what you just wrote.  
resable on
Re: Brewing Controversy, Part Two
Well, thank you, but then what would we all talk about then? < Grin>
blackmamba on
Re: Chapter 24: Brewing Controversy, Part Two
I guess I have to read the book now so I can agree with this even more.
ladylight on
Re: Chapter 24: Brewing Controversy, Part Two
I found it fascinating, contemporary but also a little repetative.

 

Why, in the second bit, did you reintroduce them by their full names. It was distracting, and we already know they are in the car.... Just curious. 

booksay on
Re: Chapter 24: Brewing Controversy, Part Two
Good point.  In the book, the scene cuts away to other characters for a long time, so when it comes back to them, the reader doesn't necessarily remember what is going on.  
pdiddyandco on
Re: Chapter 24: Brewing Controversy, Part Two
I didn't have a chance to read all of it, but I certainly will. I liked what I read. I made it about halfway through. You've just about captured my whole feelings about the Da Vinci Code. It's fictional, yet everyone, especially Christians, are treating it like a new book of the bible.

 

Good job.

booksay on
Re: Chapter 24: Brewing Controversy, Part Two
Thanks.  That's really nice of you to say.  

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