For EIGHT years half of America gave Dubya a blank check and whistled mindlessly while he spent us into oblivion with his war, his tax breaks, and raiding the SS funds.

IN his last year, just a continuiation of his abominable economic record of ignoring the recession, banks and auto industries began to fail.  He instituted the bank bailout.

In December of 2008 BUSH APPROVES the bailout of the auto industry.

 

And now, people have the BALLS, to whine about the economy under Obama? 

MSNBC :  

Nearly seven in 10 have serious reservations about the federal government’s ownership stake in General Motors. Almost 60 percent say that President Obama and Congress should worry more about keeping the deficit down — even if that means it will take longer for the economy to recover. And fewer than half of Americans have confidence in the president’s policies to improve the economy.

 

Give me a break!

 
   

 


 
 
fwiffo on
Re: Now Let's Get This Straight . . .
I second that.
eddiec on
Re: Now Let's Get This Straight . . .
People who disapprove the bailout under Bush also disapprove of the bailout of Obama, hence Bush's approval rating and the disapproval of Obama's bailout plan
bbmyls2go on
Re: Now Let's Get This Straight . . .
But Bush lost his approval long before the bailouts kicked in.  Disapproval of the bailouts has remained the same, about 45% (with about 45% approval, basically showing Americans never took time to learn what the bailouts would do, how they would work, what they would effect, and how soon they would be paid back).

Obama's rating has only slipped because of the 30% of the republican party that was against Bush, has again returned to the party fold after the election - Obama support by Republicans was 45% in February and is only 20% now.  That is not the bailout, that is partisan politics.

So the question is why are poll respondents so vocal now?  I question the polls as well - one news report says the respondents reported having "serious reservations" while another said they reported "concern". Which is it?  What do those terms mean?  What was the question and how was it phrased?

eddiec on
Re: Now Let's Get This Straight . . .
Totally agree about polling and numbers. They're 99 percent bullcrap with a error margin of 1-99 percentage points.

But I just don't like the comparison. Many, many, many people have legitimate dislike for the bailouts. And this is just an observation that even many Bush supporters hated the bailouts. They have gotten more and more expensive under Obama as well. A lot of people are starting to believe enough is enough when it comes to giving money to struggling companies.
eddiec on
Re: Now Let's Get This Straight . . .
* many Bush supporters hated the bailouts of both Bush and Obama.
bbmyls2go on
Re: Now Let's Get This Straight . . .
yeah, I took, I think it was statistics, in college that had a section on polling and I've always been very suspicious of how they are reported in the press - I always prefer to see the poll question itself as well as who it was asked of - in a case like this, is it random?  are they registered voters?  are they only of one party? is it random people in a phone poll?  boy, that alone can bring questions - who has a home phone? are poor excluded? are they landlines or cell phones?  polls can be very deceptive!
namastelaoshi on
HUH?
Namaste,

 

First you state:

 

"People who disapprove the bailout under Bush also disapprove of the bailout of Obama, hence Bush's approval rating and the disapproval of Obama's bailout plan"
 
Then you state:
 
"Totally agree about polling and numbers. They're 99 percent bullcrap with a error margin of 1-99 percentage points."
 
Sorry, sir, but I do not understand all that I know about what you have presented here?
 
Sincerely,
 
David Tecumseh Schmidt
 
eddiec on
Re: HUH?
Yes, I realized when I was contradicting myself there, but I tried to correct myself. I don't think anyone would disagree that Bush is rather unpopular as were the bailouts among those who liked some of his policies. I don't think anyone would disagree that Obama's bailouts are unpopular among those same people. There are some people that will hate whatever Obama does because he's Obama. There are people who hated Bush just because he's Bush. But those people are not worth the time. The issues are.
namastelaoshi on
Thank you,sir.
Namaste,

 

If you could check it out with my family and some close friends you would find it to be confirmed by many, if not by most, that beyond any doubt that I am, without any imperfection, a complete asshole.

 

However, stated sincerely, I now say that I am striving to not be as I have been perceived and judged.

 

So, with some much needed introspection, I, without equivocation, I here and now state that I understand where you stand on the immediate issue while allowing you to be a complete fudking idiot.

 

Truly, sir, as difficult as it for me attest to, I accept that you have the right to your political opinions and the [misguided] right to stand four square in front of and in defence of them.

 

Sincerely,

 

David Tecumseh Schmidt

 

Yes, even though I stand far away from accepting little or anything at all of merit about Bush and his policies, I can accept that you can accept such without my adjudicating you to be a complete fudking fool. Understand that this aint easy for me. Okay?

 

So,  

teejay1324 on
Re: Now Let's Get This Straight . . .
Bush's bailouts were one thing, but the Obama adminstration has gone a few steps further. And the stimulus has a lot left to be desired in actually stimuluting the economy.

Many people, myself included, would and are against government bailouts and increased involvement in the private sector no matter whom maybe the President.
bbmyls2go on
Re: Now Let's Get This Straight . . .
"but the Obama adminstration has gone a few steps further"

let's look at that then - here is a report on the difference in the two President's versions of the bank bailout :

In a desperate attempt to distance himself from Bush, the Obama administration has added some complicated economic terms packaged into a system he simply calls the “bad bank.”  The essence of the plan, however, is exactly what Bush originally proposed.

It goes on to point out the Bush plan removed the government from having any decision making regarding the loans.  That obviously changed when Barack took office and put a stop to CEO perks, bonuses, and parties that were being spent with the money.  I for one, think it was good for Obama to intervene.

 

Likewise, Bush, who did not want to bail out the auto industry but simply felt they should be allowed to fail, was pressured into a bailout plan which, like the bank plan, had NO oversight.  Again, these are LOANS, I see no problem with the government setting restrictions on how the funds are used ie : fuel mileage, saving jobs, and removing a poorly performing CEO from responsibility over the use of that money.

Now the government ownership, of GM, is something I haven't taken time to look at - did we BUY GM or provide a bailout loan?  I suspect the press and the detractors are not being honest in use of the term.  I believe the government ownership of a percentage of GM stock, is more properly a "stewardship" that is for a limited time (until the loans are repaid to a certain percentage/time).  Again, I see no problem, if GM is using OUR tax money, that OUR government shouldn't have a stake in how the company is run during the period it is financially beholden to U.S.

 

As for the stiimulus, I disagree with your assessment.  There is a lot to be desired in anything, but you cannot deny facts that are shown by what is happening with the money and its effects on job creation and economic stimulus.  Reports say that the figures used by Obama for projecting increases in jobs and economy are the EXACT figures used by Bush himself in 2002.  Experts say that with the use of the stimulus money at the rates that are occuring now (and I see it daily on the highway - infrastructure got a BIG boost) that the job predictions for this year will be easily met (they still argue over the overall figure of 6.5 million jobs but I don't know, signs of economic improvement are begining to peek through - the question is will they stay?).

I appreciate your comments - I too am very wary of the intervention, but I think I weigh it a bit more with trust than some others, LOL!

namastelaoshi on
Say what?
"Bush's bailouts were one thing..."     A good thing?

 

"...Obama adminstration has gone a few steps further. And the stimulus has a lot left to be desired in actually stimuluting the economy."    A bad thing?  Your suggestions or solutions or those of others you'd recommend?

 

"Many people, myself included, would [sic] and are against government bailouts and increased involvement in the private sector no matter whom maybe [sic] the President.

 

How about no traffic regulations or air traffic control and flight rules?  I betcha really have no use for labor laws also. Yes or no? What about environmental protection? Leave all such to the private sector?

 

In pursuit of happiness, truth, wisdom and justice,

 

David Tecumseh Schmidt

bbmyls2go on
Re: Say what?
I agree with you - what I didn't write but was thinking, was that to say there is too much "intervention" (or involvement, I guess he said) implies that the loans should be granted with no restrictions - that is ridiculous.

You want to be saved?  OK, we will loan you the money, but here are OUR terms.  I like that.

teejay1324 on
Re: Say what?
No, none of the bailouts were a good thing, with the possible exception of the intervention with the banks. Do I know enough about economics to disagree with the notion that these banks could not fail? No, I do not so I am not disagreeing with the loans in the financial sector.

However, Obama did go further with auto bailouts becuase the government now has stock, partial ownership, call it what you want of two companies that should've been allowed to fail because they were A) Poorly managed and B) not producing products that the consumer wanted to buy in large enough quantities to make a profit. When that happens you have a bad business that fails and should be allowed to fail. The free market allows the strong to survive and the weak to fail and I don't think it should be any other way. If the American consumer had demand in the future for American cars new business or the leftovers of GM and Chrysler could emerge and fill that void.

The stimulus money(all 6% that has been spent so far) has not been shown to have had a substantial, definitive impact on the economy. Is the recession slowing down? Of course, is the rate of new jobless claims decreasing? Absolutely. Are we going to see a recovery in the 4th quarter? Most likely, has the market bottomed out and becoming relatively stable? Yes. Can any of this be directly linked to the stimulus, or is it the just the natural economic course we see in all recessions  and downturns? This process of recovery was going to happen with or without the stimulus.

The stimulus has a lot of new government funded jobs, a lot of which are for social services. These jobs that are being created are not a one time expense covered by the stimulus money, they are new, permanent government expenses that will be left for the taxpayer to cover for long after the stimulus money is spent(whenever that actually occurs).

How do I know this? It has happened in my home city. Four new jobs at a homeless healthcare center at the cost of 950,000 over two years. After which Harbour Homes "hopes" the government will continue to run the center at an aparent cost of just under half a million dollars a year...for FOUR jobs. The rest of the work is done by volunteers. FOUR full-time jobs for two years in a city of 90,000. How many times will this be repeated across the country?

This stimulus bill should've been tax cuts for business and citizens and infrastructure spending and that's it. Keep more money in people's pockets and put some guys to do work doing work that allready needs to be done. We got that and a whole lot more. Including a loophole in some states food stamp rules that will cause people receiving an extra 25 bucks in unemployment from Obama to make just too much now from that to qualify for food stamps costing them hundreds of dollars a month.

How about people working two jobs? They will get the 400 dollar tax cut for this year...twice...and then have to pay 400 back at taxtime. A needless mistake in the writing of the stimulus bill Obama shoved through into law.

Lastly, I said nothing, nothing about traffic and air regulations or labor laws. I beleive in the government protecting people's safety and in those circumstances obviously the government needs to be regulating them. I'm not an anarchist, I don't want the US to be like Somalia. Don't take my lack of confidence in the government with what they're doing now to the extreme of suggesting I don't see a need for any government at all.


And one more, Obama put a stop to bonuses? Hmm, did you forget about the uproar caused over AIG's bonuses after Obama had taken office? The bonuses Geitner(I know I spelled it wrong) knew about two weeks before it became a national story and did nothing about? Obama actually came out and slammed the bonuses over the weekend only come to find out his adminstration knew about them before hand and did nothing. Only after the media went nutso over the whole thing did they move to stop it.

I find it hilarous all the trillion plus dollars the government has spent and loaned over the last six months and the adminstration and congress went apeshit over 100 million in bonuses. That was the breaking point for the American public? 100 million dollars being paid out based on a contract signed long before AIG received government money. Not the auto bailouts and take over? Not the massive stimulus?
namastelaoshi on
Helllo.
Namaste,

 

Any comments? Rebutal? Agreement? Change of topic?

 

Sincerely,

 

David Tecumseh Schmidt

teejay1324 on
Re: Helllo.
I'll rebut, comment after work. Some people actually sleep from 10:45 at night until 4:06 in the morning. No need to be an asshole. I will have plenty to say tonight when I get a chance. Keep your pants on.
namastelaoshi on
Okay sir.
Namaste,

 

Here, in Qingdao on the coast of China, we are twelve hours ahead of Easter Daylight Time back in A United States part of North America  [aka AUSPONA to me].

 

Could be that, depending on your time zone, when it is 0406 there, it is 1606 here. I apologise for the consternation I caused you for not taking this into consideration when posting my comments.

 

I hope that you can accept that I must, at least some of my time here, I must function in the regular daytime hours in Qingdao.

 

Of course, sir, I can wait for your rebuttal and comments.

 

Sincerely,

 

David Tecumseh Schmidt

namastelaoshi on
While you were sleeping...
I happened on this.

 

Namaste,

 

NEW YORK – Federal authorities are investigating a new national outbreak of a bacteria-triggered illness, this time related to a sweet treat treasured by the heartbroken and children-at-heart — packaged raw cookie dough.

 

The federal Centers for Disease Control said its preliminary investigation shows "a strong association" between eating raw refrigerated cookie dough made by Nestle and the illnesses of 65 people in 29 states whose lab results have turned up E. coli bacteria since March.

 

Could it be, I am only asking, that a government, that any government has the right to be intrusive into and pose questions about the production of and the product for consumption of its populace?

 

I mean like the tax payers? Ya know?  Can any such taxpayers, ya know, expect that a government , any government, should and would be interested in or in some way, in the least, responsive  to the welfare of its' citizens?

 

How 'bout this?

 

Sincerely,

 

David Tecumseh Schmidt

namastelaoshi on
Got your back on this good buddy.
Namaste,

 

Some idiot news commentator, within the past 24 hours, was going off about how the bailouts of banks and AIG international insurance giant and the auto manufactures "started by President Obama back in September" are becoming worrisome to the public now.

 

Soon the undiscerning, uneducated, unaware and seemingly uniformly unenlightened uncaring fascist, unpatriotic, despotic, knee-jerk, ignorant, neoconservative, ghoulish [fudking] sheepel, primarily but not necessarily Republicans, back home in  A United States part of North America [AUSPONA], my beloved homeland, will be told and directed to believe that the egregious greed and inept policies of the now five-month-old Obama Administration led to and are directly and singularly responsible for the chaos our president has to wade through now to grab the anchor chain of our sinking ship of state to tow it into calmer seas.

 

More fear-mongering underhanded deceitfully kleptocratic egregiously retrograde sons-a-bitches [fudkers], as just delineated above, will be relentless in their attacks on President Obama as he charts the new courses needed to sort out and resolve in an honest effort while being honest with us about the immense difficulty and hardships we face in  returning a sense of honor to the office of president and to our once great nation.

 

Sincerely in pursuit of truth, wisdom, peace and justice,

 

David Tecumseh Schmidt 

mythoutsonit on
Re: Now Let's Get This Straight . . .
Yes, they were started by Bush before his term was over. But, Obama said during his campaign that he was going to do things differently and more transparently... He didn't. He has changed nothing. Although I am obviously a Republican, I do not agree with Bush's plan to bail out any of the businesses that have been or will be bailed out. I think that Obama just finished the job and is blaming it on Bush... He could have changed course if he wished... But he didn't. That is why his approval rating has dropped, just like Bush!!

namastelaoshi on
He [President Obama] has changed nothing.
Yup. There is little to show for his whole five months in office.

 

"I think that Obama just finished the job and is blaming it on Bush..."  What does this mean?

 

Finished what job? Blaming what on Bush?

 

Any comment on who earned and deserves the blame for contriving, conniving, deceitfully fostering, concocting, promulgating the egregiously disastrous policies and legislative actions that put us in the enormous and deep economic quagmire President Obama has yet to clear up after being in office for nearly a whole half year.

 

Huh? Comment please.

 

Sincerely in pursuit of peace and justice, wisdom and truth,

 

David Tecumseh Schmidt

 

bbmyls2go on
Re: Now Let's Get This Straight . . .
Obama never said he was going to reverse the bailouts during his campaign.  How could Obama change course of the U.S. Congress? 

I think if you look at approval ratings, you will simply see that the 40% of your fellow republicans who lost faith in Bush as reflected in his end of term ratings, went back to supporting their party and opposing the new President -

namastelaoshi on
Looking for comments.
Namaste, My thouts on it,

 

I have expressed some of my thoughts on your thoughts.

 

Do you have any thoughts on my thoughts as exressed here? 

 

With sincerity and expressed respectfully,

 

David Tecumseh Schmidt

mythoutsonit on
Re: Looking for comments.
Yea, sorry. I actually had stuff to do this weekend!

 

I think that Obama could have stopped it if he wanted to...!! And, he could have. The bail outs... All I hear is that it is all Bush's fault. Yes, there is a lot that was from him, but Obama can change things if he wants to. Instead he increases the debt!!

 

The reason those Republicans went back to supporting their own party is because Obama is now doing what he said he wouldn't (follow Bush  doctrine) and they didn't like it when Bush was doing it so why would they like it when Obama does it?

 

I do agree with you about one thing. It is too early to tell what Obama will do. He has not been in long enough to give him an F. But, I do believe he has been in long enough to do the BIG changes he talked about in his campaign.

 

One thing I am sure we can all agree on is that WE DON'T AGREE AND NEVER WILL!!!

 

teejay1324 on
Re: Looking for comments.
Busy I'm sure, but nothing more to add? I had finally commented back at length.
namastelaoshi on
Cannot
I think I have read your reply.........Iknow that I have. Hoqwever I am in a deep and ptortraacted depressino Mental confusion. Can't reply.  sorry  David
teejay1324 on
Re: Cannot
Sorry to hear that. Best of luck!
namastelaoshi on
thank you
I am up from my be after weeks of confinement, immobility. Will struggle, make an honest effort to stay out of the bed til night time. Mind exhaustion lingers but physical activity and little tasks, like eating and cleaning my body can and will help relieve mental confusion.  Davie

 
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