I don't know how to say this, but I know I can. I really do admire what you wrote to morelost, you've always been there for him patiently + for no personal gain, even though he hardly ever responds to stuff, you've kept some hope. I simply wouldn't know what to say to an entry like that, there's nothing I can add there - when I try to talk to people like this on mindsay, I just can't remember the feelings to relate to + tend to say the same stuff to a broad audience in an unpersonal, unengaged way, still though, might as well on the offchance.

I wanted to acknowledge, there's not many people around to see who can, I can't reward (and I know it's not expected by you because it's not your reason, and getting one would feel like it was cottupting the selflessness of the act anyway), but it doesn't go unnoticed, at least not by me

Well, thanks, that's very encouraging that you wanted to say that.  My own experience of being ill (which isn't finished yet) has turned out to be very useful.  I find i can relate to all sorts of things that the majority haven't a clue about, but which are obvious to me.  And of course talking to somebody who 'understands' makes an incalculable difference.

Obviously these things matter to you, which is very good to see, and it's so good the way you too want to help our friend along.  You talk about 'remembering the feelings' - have you been ill as well?  If you don't mind me asking.  Or does Bexhill just have a numbing effect???  Seriously though, folks, I do applaud the fact that you so clearly care about our US buddy and that you're gracious enough to affirm me.  I feel better for that.  Which means you're caring for me.  I like that.  What a good effect there is spreading out from you!  You're not so unpersonal or unengaged.  Many people wouldn't even try to do what you do.

Is the lab still a safe place?  What kind of lab is it anyway?  Alien autopsies?  Pulsing brains?  Well, maybe not in Bexhill.

Very nice to meet you, Bahamat.  Love the cat with the loo roll, by the way.  Attached is my fave silly picture.  Actually, I don't think I can work the Insert thing, but it is a very, very silly picture.  You'd have loved it.  Ah well.    Ian

Welcome
I've been fortunate not to have been physically ill, but when I was at uni a few years back, was homesick just moved from home, living on campus, I sank right down, right to the edge - i'd never had a gf (it bothered me that I was still a virgin) and my cat Jessie had recently died (we knew it was going to happen sooner or later because she was 19) - that cat i loved so much, and i got + gave my love from/to her. In addition at that time, i'd just failed a driving test, because of the above, which compounded it, and I also started to realise my choice of subject was a mistake. I felt fairly trapped.

I swore to never let anyone face that again, I figured I could give my life some kind of meaning, even if it didn't seem like it could be happy, by using my experiences, i could still make it worthwhile. I recognised at uni there was almost no decent psychological provision - or all I got was comforting that didn't give me any answers, so I hope to provide what I can through mindsay. I found morelost because he tagged suicide, and I talk to others too. Not everyone appreciates my attempts (I can give examples) so it's reassuring to hear this . Part of this is that I can be confrontational when I feel it would benefit the people who would be later affected by who i'm talking too.

I've slowly gotten things back on track - i changed what form of love I care about so now I get what really counts from friends and allies, and that it shouldn't be restricted to just one person or gender. Gone to brothels allow myself to move on from that other thing to. I can't be arsed to find a woman or go back to driving lessons, but those things aren't important to my goals.

I'm a lab technician for ELAB in the StLeonards area of the neighbouring town, Hastings. For a crappy wage I prepare soil and water samples for analysis of petrolly compounds (you'd be surprised just how petrolly some of them are - you can see + smell it). At weekends I work at Currys in the stockroom. Bexhill is quite the retirement home - there's about 5 old people's homes on one road lol - people pretty much come here to die somewhere peaceful.

I love the pic of zac I'm curious as to how you linked to morelost too - I suspect from your profile that you do volentary work? - i can see a pattern! and you've experienced psychology things too, so that would be how + why you understand + why you keep with morelost

I see you're also associated with the church -i'm undecided regarding that (because I simply don't know enought) but I think the bible gives food for thought if nothing else. I don't mind though what happens really, we can make an indelible mark on life now - i'd happily accept the chance to make a permanent impact on earth in exchange for hell after, if that's what it takes, it'd be worth it, and if a god turned out to disagree with what I stand for, I would rebel against him- or at least talk it over. I wonder why there is any opposition at all - why can't everyone be made instantly and infinitely happy forever? - why do negative feelings like boredom or loneliness even need to exist? - I think if anyone could do that, they would, so if it hasn't happened, then I suspect nobody has both the power + will to do all that

Hi again and thanks for the welcome   These Mindsay emoticons are much more interesting than the Hotmail ones, don't you think?  Sorry I've been a while in replying - I've been unwell, and that and other things left me rather wiped out.  However, here I am to say thanks you for the pleasant surprise of such a long and informative reply - I feel I know you fairly well already.  You've also been tremendously frank and open about yourself to me, so let me say I appreciate that very much - a great compliment to me.  You sound like a person who wants values and answers, who wants to think and understand things and find what really matters.  A pity, therefore, that your lab job doesn't seem to give scope to your personality.  What subject did you really want to do at Uni?  I take it you did biochemistry or the like.

 

Uni was obviously a very bad time for you.  You say Morelost drew you by his 'suicide' tag - is that how you felt then?  Seems that nobody was really equipped to address the things that troubled you.  I know that can be a horribly isolating and confusing experience, though you say you at least got some comfort.  Did you meet some of the 'pull yourself together' school?  Hope not.  I had a friend who, truly wishing to help, said, 'I get depressed too, you know.  Sometimes I didn't shave for three days.'  His advice?  'Walk faster.  Wear a tie.'  Still, he cared, which was his real help.  As to how I linked to Morelost, I was looking on the Net for something else entirely and it threw up a link to something titled 'Christianity has given me no solace, only grief.'  I wondered what that was, so I clicked and it turned out to be one of Morelost's blog entries.  I was so distressed by what I read I felt I had to reply and the rest is history.

 

You and I seem to have it in common that we now want to make our dark experiences count for other people.  Having been there, we now have things to say that others can't and we can refresh the parts that other beers cannot reach.  So good for you - many people would have been content to leave the bad times behind and forget all about it, whereas you seek to do good with them.  I'm sorry your efforts aren't always appreciated - painful, but I guess it goes with the job.  Oh - I didn't get what 'that other thing' was that you moved on from.

 

Actually no, I don't do volountary work, but nice that you should think I do!  Maybe if my health had been better I would have.  But perhaps I do in a way - I've had, and have, friends to whom, because of my experiences, I've been able to offer some counsel, understanding and support.  And there's the various things I do as part of the church family - used to work with the kids, for example, which was great; and recently I've been involved in setting up a drop-in/support group for mental health patients, which of course includes myself.  So, yes, you did see that pattern.  Better check my profile and find out what I said!

 

Yep, Zac's a tremendous cat.  You're his fifth Mindsay admirer - I'll tell him when next I see him.  He's a bit unwell just now and will shortly have some treatment for a thyroid condition, after which he'll be as zippy as ever.  Amazing, isn't it?  People contact me from the other side of the world via unbelieveable technology to tell me about their cats! 

 

I'm really sorry about Jessie - that was obviously a sharp loss.  Does she now have a successor?

 

Yip, I'm 'associated with the church', and I smile a bit, beacause it would never enter my head to use that phrase about the gaggle of people I'm in among each Sunday, and at other times, and who hold up my life.  They're fun, they're creative, they're (usually) alive, sometimes they're infuriating and at the end of the day they love me.  I'd love you to meet them.  But you say you're undecided about that sort of stuff because of lack of information.  Well, that's refreshing, as many folk just assume they know what it's all about and fashionably declare it's not for them without examination.  Or uncritically swallow 'The Da Vinci Code' or whatever whole.  I think lots of people reject something that's actually Something Completely Different (well said, Mr. Cleese) from what we're talking about.  In fact, they're right to reject it.

 

Well, it's really nice to have established contact with you - looking forward to your reply.  Tonight I make a curry from scratch, tidy the maelstrom of a bedroom and watch Doctor Who, my absolutely must-see weekly treat.  How nice that David Tennant's Scottish!  Next time, if you like, I'll tell you about by Epic Novel - published this year, I hope!     Byeee. 

 

PS  Do you know how to work the Insert Picture thing?  I can't find a URL (whatever that is) for the pics in My Pictures.

lol haven't tried hotmail emoticons
No hurry at all with replying
I'm a lot more open on tinternet generally because there's no risk
I studied chemistry, I had a mild interest but, when it's not at my own pace it feels forced and trapping.
I recently handed in my notice to the lab job because I was afraid of being sacked first, but I still have my other job which pays housekeep
I did realise that, at the time, as you said, only answers were going to really help me - so I have a different approach than just comforting, but I still try to be gentle

I havn't been on mindsay that long and, I did have suicidal thoughts a few years back, I don't desire to do it now that I have a purpose, but I never forgot. I searched that tag to find people I could help, particularly if they felt trapped - I think I might be able to prevent others from having to go through the same - but the irony is that if they don't go through the same, they might not understand. I suppose I have no control over what they feel, and if they will depress, they will, but I can open up ways out and try to get people to understand through words and analogies. I'm not getting any younger so I might as well make myself useful lol

A few people at uni were almost targeting me for feeling it (it makes them angry to have to hear it, or they expect everyone to look forcibly happy, which i resent expectation in general), and thought little of me because of my lack of confidence (i.e. thought that my points were less valid or everyone else had thought of it first, etc), they even suggested that I suicide in the exam so they could get sympathy marks, but i realised I had to get stronger in response and I began to resent people who try to undermine others just for kicks, and who make unfair personality stereotypes, or who think people should bow down to their anger/ lack of tolerence (which is their own failing), etc. Before I wanted to use my experiences to help, I was only holding on for my family, I both loved and hated them, I think I needed a bigger reason when I thought that "it may be selfish to do it, but it's also selfish of them to keep me in pain", also I thought that my being born was their choice, not mine, so I'm commited to a life of hard work for what's expected back for what everyone tells me is a "privelege" (life) that i had to look like I was enjoying, otherwise people would get angry, but life that I secretly hated and was only doing to keep people happy. Now though I have a purpose, and it makes me feel better, and I don't have any sympathy for people who expect things off others, who intrude on their freedom.

"that other thing" was virginity, it really, really got to me that I felt I had no hope of having the guts to ask out someone even if I did meet them. For years this warped my view of myself, even though there's no reason why it should really matter to anything, I just couldn't release myself from what people had brainwashed me to think of myself in X given situation, since I couldn't accept it I had to do something, and brothels (from the back pages of the Friday ad, and punternet.com) did that. I want everyone to know the option is open to them, so they never have to feel trapped by that.

I suppose what you do is like volentary work, just not formally labelled as it, and probably a little more flexible. Jessie doen't have a successor, because me + my sister would be moving out in a few years time, and my parents would sell this house and downgrade - it would probably be a lot of upheval for an animal, also parents want to be able to go on holiday w/o worrying about catteries, which seem to like you to book in advance. I suppose I had plenty of time to prepare for Jessie, I do sometimes mourn the future deaths of people+animals who are still alive - as if preparing myself.

I'm quite into very informal philosophy and sometimes fight boths sides of an arguement to manipulate it down my way of thinking, I used to do this a lot on stupidevilbastard.com before mindsay, but I got too tired of that - you can get through to people who aren't willing, as long as you have determination and can pinpoint the issue (so they can't wriggle out of it easily) - but it's very tiring + hard. Some people on that blog are @$$#0!£$ and I thought perhaps if I could get through to them, I could make life easier for the people they affect, because outside of the internet i think @$$#0!£$ are more likely to go unchallenged in life, because they are able to inflict consequences on people, so I hoped to speed up what life does. Also openeing a closed mind is like opening a door without a handle - the more open it is, the easier it is to open it more, so if I can just start to open it, it'll accelerate.

An issue I have with some religion is I feel that, if we were created, it'd be for more than just worshipping out of our own personal gain of heaven - i mean if they're going to worship (or repent) it only really counts if people really mean it, rather than just doing it out of habit, but still it wouldn't matter if we didn't at all (or even felt free to criticise/hate god) because it's all stages of figuring stuff out, and if they didn't express it to deal with it, people'd still have felt it so where would the sense be in holding it back? - if he can read our minds anyway there's no difference between what we think and what we officially say (other than how you intend it to affect living people who can't read our minds), but i think we don't have much control over how we feel - i certainly don't blame someone for being stressed from work - it's circumstance that made them like that - sure, they could always have a higher tolerence to stress or whatever, but we all succum if pushed too far, and if we didn't have that inbuilt "rebel if it gets too bad" things would get totally abused + out of hand. Tolerence is good and deserves credit, but until we're rid of people who'd take advantage of it, we need a way of dealing with them.

I look forward to talking too I don't watch much tv but play gta4 and talk to some people online
p.s. there's an icon that's supposed to allow insert picture (2 mountains with a sun in top right corner, 2nd row, 6th to the right) - but I don't know how it works

Hello again!  I noticed you've been encouraging Morelost again.  He's over the Atlantic as I type.  So glad he's taken this step.  Are you still at he lab?  Hope you get something more satisfying - maybe you could try some job that's more people-related.  Something in a caring-type role, perhaps?  You're clearly interested in people and their welfare and perhaps would thrive in a role that enabled you to express that (and get paid for it).  Maybe a job in Mental Health?  Seriously - I get support from something called the Scottish Association for Mental Health, which is a huge national setup that does all manner of things.  For your interest and fascination, I'm going to attempt to attach the flyer for the mental health drop-in centre I've been involved in starting at my church.  Design and illustrations by me! 

Err...

Damn, it doesn't do Word files.  I'll see if I can feature in in my blog, so try that.  I'll attempt the fave silly picture from last time too.  If all else fails I can email it to you.  I'm ian51smith@hotmail.com

Working with unwell people in mh is demanding of course.  I said to my first support worker, 'It must be a strain spending all your time with disturbed people.'  'Well, you said it,' he replied.  Anyhow, you need a job with a bit of meaning to it.  If you had to retrain or study something new, that's ok, I think.  You're just a spring chicken, after all.  By the way, what did you really want to do at uni?  And what's gta4?

 

I had a great trauma on Saturday - Dr. Who was cancelled to make room for Eurovision Song Contest.  There's no standards anymore.  However, I've largely recovered and I'm looking forward to next Saturday.  Our mh group went very well on Monday - only three meetings and it's grown every week, so we're very pleased.  yet more coming next Monday.  Everybody there suffers, or has suffered, from some form of mental illness, not counting Peter the Pastor (sequel to Bob the Builder), so we're all in the same boat, organisers included.  That means we can offer a 'safe place', where people know they're understood.  One of our organisers/participants used to be a psyc. nurse and now teaches Pastoral Care in a big college in the city and her book, 'Pastoral Care of the Mentally Ill', has just come out.  She actually speaks nationally and internationally on the subject, so you can see we've got great resources.  But I digress.

 

I was looking over what you've written, and you seem to have suffered greatly from being in environments where you were told to be someone other than who you are, to think the thoughts of other people, not your own.  That seems to have happened in your family and among your fellow-students at uni.  Some of the latter appear to have had a very cruel sense of humour.  Things in your family context have been/are very painful and hard to deal with and this makes me wonder if the family has been a place where you haven't been listened to or taken seriously, where your wants, feelings and emotions have been dismissed and you've been expected to ignore them yourself and live out what other people want.  If you don't there's been the threat of 'their' displeasure being dumped on you - guilt trip, rejection, you've failed, you've hurt us, etc.  The result has been a very hard life you 'secretly hate.'  I think this shows up too (and quite rightly) in your thoughts on religion.  Am I right?  Hope not, but if I am, can I say that you share a lot of the experiences from which I'm recovering and that I really do understand.  Your hatred is secret no longer, because you've told me and I thank you for it.  Thank you for letting me see a bit of your heart - if you'd like to talk to me and unburden I'd be more than delighted to listen and offer you any support or help I can.  No pressure, of course, just if you want.  Though you've only just started to chat, you've already shown the kind of honesty and openness that heals the kind of hurts you describe.  Thanks again for the compliment.

 

Well, gotta go, as I have a visit to make.  I'll check in when I get home tonight about 8-9pm and add a bit more.  Your thoughts on religion are great - the Bible's full of the sort of stuff you mention, so I wanted to say a bit about that, if it's okay with you.  So: the Force be with you as you traverse the Bexhill System and catch ya later.

 

 

 

Hello? Hello?  Mother ship calling Bexhill...

 

Hi again.  This follows the may 28th post.  Apologies for taking several days - things to do, a bit unwell, etc., but here I am.  Feeling a bit worried in case I was kinda pushy or intrusive last time - a failing of mine.  Please forgive me if so.

 

Well, they put Doctor Who on, so I'm happy.  Nice scary one tonight.  Forgot the date on Monday and missed the consultant, but that's nothing new.  You'll notice I found out how to put pics on the blog, so the Fave Silly Picture and our mental health Flyer are both there, but adding pictures here still eludes me.

 

I thought a lot of your thoughts on religion were absolutely spot on.  In fact, there's loads of stuff in the Bible that backs up exactly what you were saying.  Worshipping for 'gain' is, well, not worship at all, it's attempted manipulation.  Worship isn't (I think) doing imposed rites and ceremonies, it's more like telling someone you love how much you love them and why, then happily hearing them reply.  It's a celebration of a relationship and the mutual commitment that comes from it, so yes, 'it only really counts if people really mean it.'  You wouldn't like being hurt and insulted by someone saying (completely insincerely) that they cared about you, when all the time they couldn't give a monkey's about you.  Neither would God.  As for being free to question God and even hate him  - yes, absolutely!  I'm convinced God wants real relationship with real people, who freely respond to him - it wouldn't be a relationship otherwise, just an act.  Because of this, he wants people to be real with him - another feature of good healthy relationships - so he can really interact with them.   Aren't our best relationships the ones where we can say what we think and feel, confident that the other person won't back off?  If we tell God we hate him, he can take it and even be glad of it.  We and he can then be real with each other.  On that subject, a while ago I had to tell God that I was deeply, furiously angry with him because of certain experiences.  I was scared to do this, but when I expressed my rage, it unlocked a lot of emotion and I was able to make huge strides forward in my recovery from the depression.  And God just seemed to get closer than ever - actually, I think he'd got me to the point of being honest with him because he knew I needed to do it.  Anyway, that's what seems to me to be the best take on that kind of stuff.  Quite like it, myself.

 

Okay, sermon's over.     No, I don't know couldn't give a monkey's what, but I like that expression.  A friend of mine used it all the time and he didn't know either, but it stuck.  Have you left the lab yet?  I had a nice, mindless couple of hours at the new Indiana Jones film - great stuff, doesn't stop for a moment.  Relax, I won't spoil it.  Wanna laugh?  Try this link:

 

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=j8q535r5nT4

 

It's my impersonation of the Queen on a vid I made for our pastor's retirement, so excuse the in-jokes.  I hasten to add it doesn't look anything like me.  Terrible how overweight HRH has become.

Our drop-in group's flourishing.  My personal triumph this week was to challenge my tendency to act as if I were responsible for the success of everything and consequently rocket past my stress boundary.  I even took a separate physical space from everyone else.  A triumph.  Pretty frazzled this week, so I'd better watch it.  Hope your week has been good.

Well, Morelost will be home and perhaps in hospital.  I see he hasn't added any more to his blog.  Hope he's able to remmeber we're there for him and take some comfort from that.  I'll drop him a line before bed tonight.

OK, signing off.  I'm gonna soak in a very hot bath for a while with a special mix of essential oils done by my aromatherapy friend.  She says it'll blow my head off - wouldn't be surprised, as my fridge smells like an opium den.  It's probably illegal - open the windows, you'll probably catch a whiff.  I'd better use it before the dogs of the Drug Squad are baying at the door.

Have a good Sunday and a good week.  Look forward to hearing from you.          Ian

 

 

In honesty i've been a little lazy recently, but that's me
Over tinternet I wouldn't notice even if you were pushy/etc - and it wouldn't even bother me if it were true, it'd just be that you were keen to talk, but i didn't notice anything anyway, and i'm probably more so; the nature of what I do on mindsay means I get involved with things that 'aren't my business' anyway - but, if it's what I wanna do there's nothing physically stopping me .

I'm surprised they make swimwear that big! I've also wondered where the idea for polkerdot came from. I like the flyer and I beleive i've seen that style of drawing before - but I don't know where from.

It sounds like our view of possible god as a person is healthy. I think some of these things by putting myself in his sandals - i mean what sort of person would make people purely to worhip themselves? - thinking he'd be like that'd be thinking he was insecure (i don't know the guy, but I'd hope...) - so if there is a primary reason i think it'd have to be something else - and just trying to but-kiss him like so many do without looking into what the real reason only really makes sense for personal gain - i'd guess he'd be tired of superficial compliments, as you said.

One thing I wonder about though, is why it is necessary to have unpleasent feelings and why life is necessary - something ain't right - if you could make everyone infinitely happy forever, in a painless instant, and not need to do any more, you probably would. People have said to me that "you'd get bored if there was no challenge" or "if you want to have a story you need a life/to have meaning" - but why should these desires exist at all? - they make us rely on something bad happening to get that challenge/story/meaning - why crave it at all? - if we be happy without it, that's a problem

Labs gone now but going for a drink with them tomorrow. I've heard (through someone who knows my dad) that my ex-boss was known in the industry as "Mr Burns" after the character from the simpsons. I haven't got round to watching the vid yet but intend to (internets a bit slow but can work)

How does taking credit for success of everything add to stress? You can take credit without taking responsibility - at least to yourself - i do sometimes but i keep it on a reality leash - and a "check that before I say things generally" thing - but now i don't have as much to hide (that I care about hiding) as before so i sometimes just say everything to everyone that's on my mind at the time, unprocessed, which can be a little unstructured because the way i think, which can totally change topics very quickly just by one thing reminding me of somthing else

several edits (to make more sense). New versions in bold, main changes are also in italics

but I'd hope...) = but I hope he wouldn't be)
"if you want to have a story you need a life/to have meaning" = "if you want to have a story/have meaning, you need a life)
if we be happy without it, that's a problem = if we can't be happy without it, that's a problem