redwoodpecker  brings up a good point. You have to stand somewhere. A lot of people have died. People not entirely unlike you and I. Human beings, spiritual, cultural, beings who loved, ate, played, listened to music, and then died prematurely because of the continued involvement of our military in their country. There is no place for pride or ego here, there is only right and wrong now.

Here I stand, making it clear that I still don't support the destruction our country has caused. Where do you stand now?


According to the ORB poll, a survey of 1,461 adults suggested that the total number slain during more than four years of war was more than 1.2 million.

ORB said it drew its conclusion from responses to the question about those living under one roof: "How many members of your household, if any, have died as a result of the conflict in Iraq since 2003?"

Based on Iraq's estimated number of households -- 4,050,597 -- it said the 1.2 million figure was reasonable
 
It was the highest estimate given so far of civilian deaths in Iraq. Last year, a study in the medical journal Lancet put the number at 654,965, which Iraq's government has dismissed as "ridiculous."

LINK


There's the approximately 1 million killed according to the best epidemiological research conducted by one of the world's most prestigious scientific institutions, there's the 75,000-80,000 (based on news reports) the Washington Post and other commercial media allow, and there's the clean and antiseptic blood-free war the administration claims to have fought (recall that they dismissed the Lancet findings out of hand and yet offered no numbers of their own).

Americans were asked in an AP poll conducted earlier this year how many Iraqi civilians they thought had been killed as a result of the invasion and occupation, and the median answer they gave was 9,890. That's less than a third of the number of civilian deaths confirmed by U.N. monitors in 2006 alone.

LINK
 
   

 


 
 
unplugged on
Re: Where do you stand?
Sadly, it hasn't mattered where I stand. It hasn't mattered where any of us stand. It is moot.

askjesse on
Re: Where do you stand?
It does matter where you stand. It matters a lot. There are people out there making their decisions and living their lives according to what they think the general public believes and will tolerate. If we continue to let people assume what we think instead of letting them know, then we have to right to be upset when we feel ignored.
jakerad on
Re: Where do you stand?
1.2 million of the wrong people have died. And I'd want to include most of Washington D.C. in the group that belong in the 1.2 million that should be dead instead. If there was really justice. Not that I think there are that many that really ought to be wiped from the earth. But 1.2m is just so absurdly unjust.
kitte on
Re: Where do you stand?
sadly, not only are most americans misinformed, they simply dont care. its not happening here at home, so it doesnt effect them. the fact that the 1.2 million listed is a ridiculous number in itself, but almost half of that number includes children. just because it is not happening here, shouldnt mean that it doesnt effect us, eventually it will be us fighting a similar war, and do you think that the people on the outside will give a damn about what happens to us?
askjesse on
Re: Where do you stand?
I think that if something similar tried to happen in the United States, people would care, actually. We aren't Iraq. Most of the developed world identifies with the culture of the united states, unlike Iraq which is sort of a big question mark that hasn't contributed much in the last thousand years or so.

I understand the concept you are setting forth, but that is why everyone that isn't misinformed needs to expect an opinion, and correct people who are wrong. Right now we are at a very low point in American history. It wasn't 50 years ago that people wouldn't have stood for this, but that was the end of a very progressive time for our country. It's time to bring it back.
myclette on
Re: Where do you stand?
You made a great point Kitte. It's not happening here so there are a group of Americans that continue to feel like its necessary to keep sending people they don't know to fight an unjust war. They have the luxury of being detatched from the situation.
askjesse on
Re: Where do you stand?
I think that we are all detaching ourselves from it. I have literally done nothing aside from vote for Bush's opposition and write these blogs to show that I'm not part of that group of Americans that thinks that two people have died in Iraq, a football player and one that was on the news when they were flipping channels. What are we, who can't claim to be uninformed or misinformed, doing to make a difference, to show our displeasure, etc?

We aren't  gathering in masses outside the offices of our government representatives and demanding change.We aren't making our opinions visible enough. We are showing that we can be walked on.

I don't know what to do, either.
strawberrywine on
Re: Where do you stand?
What do we do? What can we do? I don't know if you ever watch Colbert but it was on last night and he was making fun of our generation and how instead of straight up opposing we go home and write in our blogs and join facebook groups to show some sort of protest, but who cares about that? Do you think the people in Washington are feeling threatened by our blog posts? Sometimes I feel as though are generation is helpless and I know, I myself is a part of that. What have I really done to try to make a difference? Not much to be honest. It is shameful and depressing. But what can I do when it seems as though no one really cares anymore, no one wnats to get invovled...I'm not sure...

 

As for this War on Terror...I recently read an interesting article by Hardy Merriman and Jack Du Vall entitled, "Dissolving Terrorism at Its Roots" which will appear as a chapter in the forthcoming book Nonviolence: An Alternative for Countering Global Terror(ism) in my Politics of Nonviolent Action class...it offers a much different method to ending terrorism than what Bush or the Media would say...you might find it interesting

askjesse on
Re: Where do you stand?
I did see that episode, actually, and I feel the same way. Though, I think that our generation can do what previous generations have done in a new way. It just needs to be channeled in a new way. Everything is changing, along with the way opinions are voiced.

I'll have to check out that article, it sounds interesting.

 
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