stimulus money
let's say your analogy is right about spending money to make money.
let's say you want to buy a house and then fix it up, flip it and sell the house to pay off your $450,000 debt.
so you borrow another $325,000, buy a house as well as other stuff. why just $325k? why not $500K? who knows. then you take the money and hire a bunch of contractors. you tell one to take care of the kitchen rebuilding, one on the bathrooms, one on the bedrooms and one on the outside and landscaping.
They ask you what exactly do you want done...and you tell them, "just get it done. Use your best judgement, I trust you to take care of it and do it as soon as you can, and make sure you spend all the money i give you."
You also want to look good for the open houses so you take $1000 and buy a new suit. Oh, and while you are at it, you buy brand new tires for your car and you buy fancy dinners for the contracting crews because you think that happy construction people work better.
you give them 2 weeks because you want to flip this house.
2 weeks later...what do you expect to find?
let's say you want to buy a house and then fix it up, flip it and sell the house to pay off your $450,000 debt.
so you borrow another $325,000, buy a house as well as other stuff. why just $325k? why not $500K? who knows. then you take the money and hire a bunch of contractors. you tell one to take care of the kitchen rebuilding, one on the bathrooms, one on the bedrooms and one on the outside and landscaping.
They ask you what exactly do you want done...and you tell them, "just get it done. Use your best judgement, I trust you to take care of it and do it as soon as you can, and make sure you spend all the money i give you."
You also want to look good for the open houses so you take $1000 and buy a new suit. Oh, and while you are at it, you buy brand new tires for your car and you buy fancy dinners for the contracting crews because you think that happy construction people work better.
you give them 2 weeks because you want to flip this house.
2 weeks later...what do you expect to find?
I'm glad I went with the gardening example... haha. I like the way your example works... it is very complicated, just like our current stimulus plan. I think that there is more direction going on than just telling the contractors to have at it, however. I'd say they've set OK limits on what is to be done, but who is making sure the money is getting spent in the spirit it was given? I'd say we are footing the bill for more than one or two extended lunch hours. Maybe some extra materials and new equiptment that they don't need....
Even if everything is well planned out, there is a lot of resources and a lot going on with them. However, what it sounds like to me is a lot of money being pumped into the already existing departments with little to no reorganization or additional oversight, which of course I have a problem with. While the current system functions, it is anything but efficient.
It is great to have a stimulus plan, but they also need a plan eliminate waste and increase productivity.
Even if everything is well planned out, there is a lot of resources and a lot going on with them. However, what it sounds like to me is a lot of money being pumped into the already existing departments with little to no reorganization or additional oversight, which of course I have a problem with. While the current system functions, it is anything but efficient.
It is great to have a stimulus plan, but they also need a plan eliminate waste and increase productivity.
as far as i've read and heard there is no great oversite. they are throwing money at various places and departments.
very very few people have read this all the way thru. it was a document that was over 1000 pages and given about 20 hours for reading.
they don't know what happened to the last $350 spent.
it's a bad idea because there is not direction, no supervision.
it's taking money that no one has and just sending it out in the world with hopes that it makes something.
very very few people have read this all the way thru. it was a document that was over 1000 pages and given about 20 hours for reading.
they don't know what happened to the last $350 spent.
it's a bad idea because there is not direction, no supervision.
it's taking money that no one has and just sending it out in the world with hopes that it makes something.
Really? That's the first bridge being constructed with Stimulus 2009 money. : / Our road system has not had a major overhaul in decades.
The problem with your house example.... the government gains revenue by taxing every individual and business. It does not sell a state off. Something tells me when things stop plummeting and the economy "rebounds" (not a V shaped rebound, but an L shaped rebound) you probably won't be making such a big deal and arguing against Keynesian ideas. In fact, Rove is already laying that rhetorical groundwork....
Simply spending money is not enough to spur an economy. It matters HOW you spend. Which is an important aspect of Keynesian economic ideas. Most of the GOP talking points is littered with untruths, or lies if you will, about the efficacy of stimulus spending, such as the lie that tax cuts are more beneficial. I'm sorry, but the facts do not bear out that line of ideological crap.
Here it is pictures, from Moody's.
can you please stop mentioning the words GOP or Republican? it's ridiculous already. ok, all the bad things in the world are GOP. I get it.
can we focus on the words on hand. yours and mine.
you keep missing the point.
you can give the money to a state but what are they doing with it? what can't they do with it?
Is all of this money for emergencies?
Will it stave off "catastropy"? Or will it be used years down the road?
btw, governments do not 'gain' revenue by taxing every individual and business. not all businesses are taxed. nor do all individuals pay taxes.
plus raising taxes does not increase revenues without a break even point and without a point where it becomes a failing idea.
California will raise gas taxes by $.12. If people use the same amount of gas, then it's a win. if people use less gas because of the expense then it will become a failed policy with lessening returns.
Where is all this money coming from?
A very large percentage is coming from our enemy, China. So let's just hope chinese investors don't foreclose on us.
Is all this money needed?
It's not about spending $800 billion. It's why? Is it enough? Who read this? what's the fine print? Is it that important? Will it work?
This thing was pushed through so fast that it is out of control.
you act as if this thing passes all with be golden. that is far from certain.
does anyone really believe that?
it's not black and white. it's all grey like your chart above.
If they had taken the time to read through this thng and understand it completely then it would have received more votes.
but it was hastily pushed through. haste makes waste.
no one trust congress. this just adds to that feeling.
I know very well who are taxed and who are not. Please see the oft quoted GAO reports on the under taxed from 2004, 2006 and 2008. 90% of all businesses pay less taxes than they should, and 60% of businesses pay ZERO taxes. The only individuals who do not pay taxes are esesntially cash laborers or children.
As to your contention that there is no accountability or transparency, did you not see President Obama cite Recovery.gov?
The GOP voted party line against the recovery. This unit of political analysis is common Toot. What's your problem? They are a political locus for conservative ideology, and their proponents on the media are simply lying about basic economic truths.
No- you are ascribing a straw man to my position. I wanted NO TAX CUTS and more than 42 billion on infrastructure. The plan, as flawed as it is today, is due to the efforts of a bipartisan economic recovery. The GOP said no to bipartisanship. They said no to the stimulus. It's a flawed bill because fucking half of it is tax cuts that will simply be spent to pay down individual debt.
As to "no one trusts congress" I'm afraid you're wrong on that front. Congress' approval ratings has risen significantly.
The historical average for Congressional Approval is 35% for the past 40 years, and 54% for the President (ie, these are the base lines).
As to your contention that there is no accountability or transparency, did you not see President Obama cite Recovery.gov?
The GOP voted party line against the recovery. This unit of political analysis is common Toot. What's your problem? They are a political locus for conservative ideology, and their proponents on the media are simply lying about basic economic truths.
No- you are ascribing a straw man to my position. I wanted NO TAX CUTS and more than 42 billion on infrastructure. The plan, as flawed as it is today, is due to the efforts of a bipartisan economic recovery. The GOP said no to bipartisanship. They said no to the stimulus. It's a flawed bill because fucking half of it is tax cuts that will simply be spent to pay down individual debt.
As to "no one trusts congress" I'm afraid you're wrong on that front. Congress' approval ratings has risen significantly.
The historical average for Congressional Approval is 35% for the past 40 years, and 54% for the President (ie, these are the base lines).
Oh, how I have missed you Jesse!
Seriously, I just knew you might say something lol
While I am in agreement with you concerning living beyond our means, I am in disagreement to your argument concerning spending money to make money. Though that sentence is true it has been the management (or lack thereof) of individual businesses and corporations that have run themselves into the ground. They spent their money in hopes of making more money. They failed. Investment on any level is a risk. Sadly, many big businesses and industries are now failing because of it. That should not however give rise to the idea that the government needs to stimulate the economy (bailouts) out of a hard lesson. Free markets should be just that. Free. Free to succeed. Free to overachieve. And even free to fail.
And if we succeed in letting the free markets determine outcomes then regardless of what company or industry is left standing, then we will have learned a valuable lesson... Never entrust a nation that is fixated on reality television with a system of credit.
And if we succeed in letting the free markets determine outcomes then regardless of what company or industry is left standing, then we will have learned a valuable lesson... Never entrust a nation that is fixated on reality television with a system of credit.
I actually agree. I cut out the part where I talked about casualties of the recession and how it would be inevitable if said companies couldn't be more realistic. I talked about car companies, actually... and how they manufacture more cars than they can sell and put new cars out ever year, while cars last for much longer. I compared it to the stride gum commercials... how do car companies make a profit when most of us drive our cars for more than a year? Some of us will never buy a car that someone else hasn't owned before.
Then I deleted it all. I was particularly sad to see the Stride gum commercial thing go... haha. CHEW ANOTHER PIECE ALREADY! Sigh...
Then I deleted it all. I was particularly sad to see the Stride gum commercial thing go... haha. CHEW ANOTHER PIECE ALREADY! Sigh...
Oh gosh, don't get me started on the Republicans and the Stimulus Package. If I hear one more word about any of those, I'll throw a rotten tomato at them. XD
You're right Crapo is an unfortunate name. He shouldn't be like his last name and maybe people won't make fun of him, eh?
I'm a registered Republican and I think that it's ridiculous that they are being stingy on the stimulus package. Obviously, THEY have never been poor in their life, meanwhile the entire country is going down the tubes all because they're being stupid about it!
It's a good thing that Grandpa's not reading this. He'd have a stroke and he already thinks I'm "liberal."
All because of a stupid bridge.
+Rebekah+316+
GRANDPA, IF THEY WANT THE DAMN BRIDGE THEN IT's GOOD! BUT IT'S JUST A STUPID FREAKING BRIDGE!!!!
You're right Crapo is an unfortunate name. He shouldn't be like his last name and maybe people won't make fun of him, eh?
I'm a registered Republican and I think that it's ridiculous that they are being stingy on the stimulus package. Obviously, THEY have never been poor in their life, meanwhile the entire country is going down the tubes all because they're being stupid about it!
It's a good thing that Grandpa's not reading this. He'd have a stroke and he already thinks I'm "liberal."
All because of a stupid bridge.
+Rebekah+316+
GRANDPA, IF THEY WANT THE DAMN BRIDGE THEN IT's GOOD! BUT IT'S JUST A STUPID FREAKING BRIDGE!!!!
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