Religion Philosophy Spirituality Life


Recently there was a post on Mindsay that dealt with Spirituality vs. Religion. I will not go into detail on the entire post but some of the items were as follows.


SPIRITUALITY SAYS THAT GOD IS WITHIN US, AND THAT WE DON'T NEED ANYONE ELSE TO MAKE THAT DIVINE CONNECTION FOR US.


RELIGION SAYS THAT WE ARE SEPARATED FROM GOD, AND THAT WE NEED "THEM" TO MAKE THAT DIVINE CONNECTION.


SPIRITUALITY SAYS THAT WE ARE FREE TO MAKE CHOICES ON OUR OWN, AND THAT WE MUST TAKE PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY FOR OUR ACTIONS.


RELIGION SAYS WE MUST MAKE THEIR CHOICES, AND ACT THEIR WAY.


The post was passed on by several others and I lost track of who first posted it, who reposted it and when but it started me thinking. The first thought that came to mind was there seems to be some conflict in relation to being spiritual and being a follower of organized religion. Before anyone gets their jaws torqued out of whack I am not here to debate the right or wrong of what anyone believes. We are after all free to believe in whatever we wish. I am just expressing something that came to mind and started me thinking about life and our purpose. I was raised as a Catholic and have experienced many religions since then. From Protestant to Lutheran, from Baptist to Methodist, many more including some of the current and past 'Born Again' congregations. To me, they were the most frightening. Are we to believe or should we believe what is told to us by Ministers, Priests, Reverends, Rabbi's, Clergy of any and all kinds and any religions? Do they have the all knowing power or the insight or all the answers to life and our purpose here on earth? If so, how do they know? Who told THEM? For the most part they are all "Organized Religions" profit making businesses. Aren't they going to tell us what they want us to hear for their own sake and to continue the flow of revenue into their businesses? Look also at the past history of religions. The Crusades, the Inquisition, the latest radical terrorist Islamists who want to kill everyone in the world who does not believe as they do. Religion has brought death, destruction and wars to all parts of the world for centuries. If our world continues to exist for centuries more I would imagine so would the conflicts, wars, death and destruction. Each religion may be similar in some ways but all are different in many others. What if . . . All of these religious leaders are wrong in their beliefs they try to instill in us. What if . . . they haven't a clue as to our real purpose here on earth or the meaning of life. What if . . .


Centuries ago it was believed that the Earth was the center of the Universe and everything revolved around it including our sun. Anyone who did not believe that was so was labeled a heretic and would surely be condemned to death. How arrogant, misguided and naive they were in those days. Again, religion was the culprit in trying to force us to believe in what they wanted us to. It took hundreds of years to correct this 'misconception' but as we have grown, matured and discovered what we were forced to believe in those days was not really true. In fact to go well beyond that we now know our Solar System is only one of Billions in our Galaxy. To expand even further, our Galaxy is only one of Billions in our Universe. We also now know our Universe has no beginning and it has no end. It goes on forever and an eternity. What if . . .


The Milky-Way Galaxy

Place a 1/4 to 1/2 inch box around the point marked 'the sun'
That is the current extent of space we have explored and have knowledge of.


What if . . . everything we have been taught since we were very young is not true. What if . . . only some of the things we have been taught are true and the rest has been misinterpreted. Theories and ideas of some of the greatest minds in history have been proven to be incorrect or have been expanded upon. We are always learning something new each day about many things in life that in the past was thought to be valid at that time. No one person or any group of people has all the answers. Not even combining everything that is known by all the greatest minds will provide an answer as to who we are, why we are here and why we exist.


What DO we know? We know that when we die or cease to exist in our earthly way that our bodies over time also cease to exist. We know, or have been told, or theorize that our souls or spirits leave our body upon death as the body is no longer needed as we continue our journey to the next station of existence. We have been told that we go on to Heaven or to Hell depending on how we led our earthly lives. What if . . . that is not entirely true. How would anyone know as those who have taught us this have never left here to find out. How do they know as their teachers who told them so have also have never experienced an after earthly life existence. As we know our Universe has no beginning and no end, What If . . . we also have no beginning and no end. That is difficult for us to understand here in our earthly existence as that is all we know of. We have no knowledge of a past existence just as we have no experience or knowledge of a future existence. We only have the knowledge of those who teach us and try to make us believe they have the knowledge and wisdom that is the truth and the way things are going to be.


Our Universe

Our Solar System is one infinitesimal speck in our Galaxy
Our Galaxy is one infinitesimal speck in the Universe.


We are after all a soul or a spirit existing in an earthly body because that is what is required to exist on this planet. What if . . . As with our Universe we have no beginning and no end. Could we have existed in another solar system in our Galaxy before arriving here to be implanted in our earthly bodies? Could we have existed in another Galaxy in our endless Universe before coming here? Will we go on to another solar system in our Galaxy or another Galaxy in our Universe when we leave here? What if . . . we existed in another form or entity in another place in time. What if . . . our spirits or souls go on to another place in our endless Universe in another form or entity. The possibilities are endless just like our Universe if you open your mind and think about it. We have no knowledge or memories of a previous existence. We have no real knowledge of a future existence. Only what we are told by a business called 'Organized Religion'. We have been told by some we will if we led a good life end up in a place lined with gold and jewels. We know for a fact the Universe is made up of many elements of which include precious metals and jewels. A dying star in another solar system when it collapses produces one of the biggest diamonds ever know to mankind. Somewhat in the size range of billions of tons. Think twice if you are planning on picking one up as the nearest one is thousands of light years away. With our present 'earthly' mode of transportation it would take several 'earthly' lifetimes to get there.


The possibilities of our existence are limitless and endless. I would not even begin to say or think that there is no God. Maybe he exists in another Solar System or another Galaxy in our Universe. What if . . . our existence here on this planet is but one of many stops in our journey before we reach our final destination if there is a final destination. The simple fact is that we don't know. Without the knowledge of any possible past and without the ability to see into the future we may never know. That is until we reach our supposed final destination. It is difficult for us to think in such terms as we only know about the limited past from what we have been told to believe. We only have our limited earthly knowledge and wisdom to draw from in trying to understand what life is all about, where if any other place we came from or existed, where we will go to when we leave here.


WE can listen to others who try to tell us or who insist on interpreting the meaning of life and our existence. Or we can open our minds, think for ourselves and continue to ask the question - What If . . . ?


What do you think? . . . What do you feel? . . . What do you believe?

 
   

 


 
 
patchesmom on
Re: What If . . .
WOW!  that was waaaaaaaaaay too much for my little pea brain to handle today.  Another long day that started at 5 a.m.  I worked, then went and did my Mom/Dad's grocery shopping, went over and spent the day there, almost ended up taking him back in, but he seems to be feeling quite a bit better today (they gave him one of the most potent antibiotics on the market) and he's going to go in next week unless he starts feeling worse.  Tonight, I veg......in my jammies, on the couch, until my eyelids demand being put to bed

 

As for your blog!  WOW again!  I agree with a lot of what you said about "what if" and for the most part I can say I believe in God, and I believe in living my life a certain way, but as for what the "organized" religions have taught us......well, like you said, it's all man made and no one really knows.  I prefer to think of myself as spiritual, not religious, and I try to live in the moment and the here and the now, and not dwell too hard in the future (yeah, I fail miserably sometimes, but it's a work in progress).

Oh, and for the origin of that Spirituality vs Religion post......it started with Noelle67.....I blognapped it to keep it out there longer, and then a few more people kept it alive a few more days because it was just that thought provoking.  Hmmmmm, I just noticed one of your tags had the term "milkyway" in it and now I'm hungry for chocolate!  lol, ok, so now you know my mind is mush tonight!

Mallman on
Re: What If . . .
WOW - Thanks for the update.   I guess you have had quite a busy week this week. Multicolored 'fluffy butt', 'cubicle noise' and then a ill Dad (who I hope is doing much better). So . . . I guess you deserve a bit of rest and a night off.

 

As far as my blog post, I guess sometimes in my feeble twisted mind I get somewhat creative and inquisitive and just want to know what is really going on. Since I know of no one who has the answers (even if they say they do) and I know of no place to find the answers, all I have left is to search my own mind and ask myself questions. Who knows, maybe one day I will come up with an answer. 

 

We can't continue to be arrogant and naive and think we are the only show in the theater. For all we know there could be people or other beings out there looking for us. Maybe one day we will meet. 

 

Take care and enjoy your evening and weekend.

 

As for my blog

patchesmom on
Re: What If . . .
thanks.........I'll reply to your email tomorrow *I'm going to walk away from the puter tonight....my eyes are as fuzzy as my head right now*  

Oh, and if there are "other shows" in the universe looking for us, I guess I better close my blinds when I get undressed at night

Dad is better, but he's got to go back next week.  So who knows?  I'll just enjoy it if he has a few good days so I can rest up!

Mallman on
Re: What If . . .
No problem, take your time. You have had a busy week and could use a good evenings rest. I may get to bed early myself as my eyes are tired. No nap today so if all goes well I should sleep through the night (Maybe)

 

Yes, by all means you had better close your blinds. You don't want some one eyed 13 legged being from another planet ending up drooling all over his telescope. 

patchesmom on
Re: What If . . .
lol, more like warning others of the freaks on Earth
Mallman on
Re: What If . . .
Now stop that. That is just plain silly. 
patchesmom on
Re: What If . . .
ty!  I forget...........they will worship me, adore my full sized frontal region and want me to be their queen!  (how's that for ego?)
Mallman on
Re: What If . . .
Amen . . .
noelle67 on
Re: What If . . .
Hey Mallman, it was me, I posted it.

What if you're right?
Mallman on
Re: What If . . .
Thank you for the info Dear Lady. It was all over Mindsay so it was hard to track down. Your original post by the way was very thought provoking. After all, look what you started. What If . . .

 

What if I am right? Perhaps one day we will find out. I do have a little something to add to this about a recent discovery by scientists. Sort of a sequel. It doesn't prove or disprove anything (as of yet). The problem is that some of the recent 'possible' discoveries are several hundred million miles away. Verizon does not have coverage that far yet so I can't reach anyone there on my cell phone. 

 

What do you think?

noelle67 on
Re: What If . . .
Mallman...

I think since you have been to the edge and back that you, perhaps, might have more insight than most.

And that you may possibly correct in your premise. Smiley
Mallman on
Re: What If . . .
Perhaps . . . But that still does not answer the question as to what you think.

 

P.S. - You can also call me Ed.  (If you so desire) 

hester on
Re: What If . . .
"The world is flat"

 

you know!

 

How many 'things' have been 'un-proven' so far from what was originally thought.  I, myself, don't trust in 'men' and their thoughts and theories but rather choose to make my own deductions based on my own research

 

Which is exactly why I don't really believe in "prayer"

Mallman on
Re: What If . . .
Yes, in some places the world is flat. In other places it is lumpy and bumpy.
hester on
Re: What If . . .
HEY - are you talking about me?????

 

Because I am lumpy and bumpy

Mallman on
Re: What If . . .
Aren't we all ? 
hester on
Re: What If . . .
Oh gosh - you just ruined my image of you
Mallman on
Re: What If . . .
And what image was that ? Maybe I can correct it for you. 
hester on
Re: What If . . .
The image was that you are tight and taunt!
Mallman on
Re: What If . . .
I guess I will have to work on that. Good thing you didn't say tightwad . . .
hester on
Re: What If . . .
HAHAHAHAHA - totally made me laugh
Mallman on
Re: What If . . .
Did it now? I couldn't really tell as all I can see is your eyes peering over your profile image window. 
hester on
Re: What If . . .
I was totally laughing (on the inside )
Mallman on
Re: What If . . .
Even if I could not see it I knew I could hear it. 
mamajo on
Re: What If . . .
noelle67 was the original poster, patchesmom blogknapped it from her, I reposted next as I thought it had many valid points and wanted to find a way for more MindSayer's to see it. It got ppl thinking and sharing those thoughts. That was the purpose. Thank you for sharing your thoughts about the subject here also.

As for proof? I don't have proof that can be proven. What I do have is my experiences observing my mother 'passing'. And I can tell you...No matter how huge existance is, or all the "what if's"... I belive in God and Jesus.

It's not something I've blogged about. Although most of my online friends know that I am a Christian, they don't know why. I don't do a lot of personal blog posts. If you have an interest in the 'why', feel free to use my email address to ask. mindsaymamajo@yahoo.com

Blessings on you and yours, MamaJo 

Mallman on
Re: What If . . .
Thank you for your input and the info on the original posting.

 

I also am a Christian and I am also a firm believer in God, guardian angels and a host of other things. The one thing that I do not have a lot of faith in is the 'church'. The bible itself goes against many of the beliefs and teachings of most churches. Since the beginning of my diagnosis with cancer (And even before) and my ongoing journey to live my life I have known there was something guiding me to make the right decisions and to survive. (That is all in my 5 or so 'Guardian Angel' posts).

 

As I also stated in my recent post "I would not even begin to say or think that there is no God." My basic intent with the 'What If ' was to examine or explore the possibilities that what we have been told to believe may not in all possibility be the way that God exists in our lives. It may be entirely different than what we have been told as no mortal being knows the real truth.

 

I examine the past. I look at the present. I wonder about the future. Exploring, examining and wondering is not a bad thing. It is how we learn about truth.

 

Thank you and bless you as well.

mamajo on
Re: What If . . .
I agree with you in regards to organized religion and churches. I am what I fondly term a 'reformed Bapti-Costal'. lol I believe we were intended to seek the 'truth' but have faith in God and Jesus. That is the hardest part. To believe in and profess faith in something you can  not prove.I do believe in Guardian Angel's also but most of all, corny as it sounds, I believe in Love.

May I go back in your archives to read the Guardian Angel posts?

Blessings, MamaJo

Mallman on
Re: What If . . .
By all means, you can read the Guardian Angel posts if you like. I think they are all open. I did go through and list a lot of posts from the past as friends only. So if you run into any problems, let me know and I will either open them for you or add you to my list so you can read them.

 

Take care.

Mallman on
Re: What If . . .
P.S. - One of the things I forgot to mention about the Guardian Angel posts is that I wrote it as sort of a story of my recent journey. Since each post comes out on top of any older ones they are basically backwards. So as it is a story (sort of ) of what has been going on in my life for the past year or more it would make more sense if you start with Part 1 and go backwards.

 

Just a thought.

mamajo on
Re: What If . . .
Excellent! I'm so glad you told me that. I am pleased that you would share a part of your life with me. Thank you.
Mallman on
Re: What If . . .
You are welcome.
velvetdreams on
Re: What If . . .
There were a few tenets of noelle's original post that I nodded with, but also a few with which I disagreed. 

 

It seems to me the issue is in the separation of spirituality & religion ... their definitions.  As I use them, religion refers to a manmade structure of a religious doctrine.  Spirituality, on the other hand, refers to the human need / expression of things of the spirit.  These are intangible, invisible, and often immeasurable issues.

 

Religion, by its very definition, is governed by humans - imperfect and mortal.  Because of this, it is flawed and often corrupt as those with power misuse and abuse this power. 

 

Spirituality, on the other hand, is an individual thing.  In my understanding, it is wrapped up in our individual seach for meaning, purpose and identity.  I believe that each individual has access to God and is capable of hearing His "voice" in any number of personal ways. 

 

<<SPIRITUALITY SAYS THAT GOD IS WITHIN US, AND THAT WE DON'T NEED ANYONE ELSE TO MAKE THAT DIVINE CONNECTION FOR US.


RELIGION SAYS THAT WE ARE SEPARATED FROM GOD, AND THAT WE NEED "THEM" TO MAKE THAT DIVINE CONNECTION.  >>

 

We are made in God's image, and as such, the divine element is within us, but it is buried under the flawed human nature that tends toward self-indulgence.  If no other entity was needed to make the "divine connection" would not more individuals rise above their base nature?  We cannot bridge the gap alone, but it is not human assistance we require.  It is God's!  It is not "the church", i.e religion that is needed, but the Love of God to empower us to look higher.

 

<<SPIRITUALITY SAYS THAT WE ARE FREE TO MAKE CHOICES ON OUR OWN, AND THAT WE MUST TAKE PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY FOR OUR ACTIONS.


RELIGION SAYS WE MUST MAKE THEIR CHOICES, AND ACT THEIR WAY. >>

 

In this sense, religion supplies a "code of conduct" that varies from denomination to denomination, sect to sect.  God says His law is written on our hearts, so we instinctively know when we stray from His way.  He also does not condemn us when we falter, but offers us innumerable chances.  Religion often seems like a straight jacket of rules and regulations that stifle life. 

 

All this to say ... my spirituality doesn't depend on any priest or prophet other than Jesus.  Religion is, as I said before, a manmade structure ... or at the very least, man interpreted structure.  This is why each denomination has a slightly different way of self-governing.  There seems to be something that happens to people when they band together in any organized way.  There is a need for leadership and from there ... power breeds corruption.  That's the catch 22. 

 

Your "what if's" are yours to investigate.  I know that the "heavens declare the glory of the Lord ... "  To me they are more than sufficient evidence that we cannot be a cosmic accident, but rather the extravogant plan of a masterful and creative God who is so much bigger than any of us can even begin to imagine ... It does allow room for redemptive imagination!   

 

Thanks for posting this ... I appreciate your perspective! 

Mallman on
Re: What If . . .
Thanks you for your thoughts and comments.

 

There is one other item that came to mind with respect to religion. As it is told in the bible there will be those who enter our lives or cross our paths who say they are 'of the lord' but in all reality are false prophets and would cause us to stray from God.  I wonder also how many religions and their religious leaders have caused many to stop believing ? From the very extremist Jim Jones and David Koresh to the sublime Jim and Tammy. The 'church' as we are told is within us not some building produced by man for the benefit of man.

velvetdreams on
Re: What If . . .
Yes ... that is a scarey and sad thought.  I'm sure many have been tuned off to God because of the actions of a few within the "church."  People are people ... imperfect and corrupt whether inside or outside of the church or organized religion.  There is nothing automatic about the call to something higher ... to continually "put down" the desires within us for power or control ... or just plain selfishness.  Jones and Koresh were extremes, but I might wonder how many were led TO believe because of people like the Bakers.  Yes, they are / were imperfect and their ministry grew increasingly corrupt, but ... I tend to think they may have accomplished some good also.  The same with Jimmy Swaggart and even Jerry Falwell!  The thing is we tend to put these people on a pedastol ... and they let us, but in doing so, our expectations become unreasonable.  We expect them to be perfect.  They are just flesh and blood.  In making them "idols", we corrupt them with their permission!  It's another one of those foibles of human nature.  We desire one to Lead ... and make him/ her into an idol of imaginary perfection.  The same holds true in politics.  How can we realistically expect any one person to govern this nation "perfectly"?  We can't .... yet we do expect it! 

It is my daily endeavor to have NO expectations in any person - including myself - I have goals and dreams, of course ... but my expectations (ideally) are only in the divine presence of God and His universal and unconditional love for each of us. 

Mallman on
Re: What If . . .
Yes, I did briefly mention a frightening experience with a Born Again Christian "cult". That only scared me away from them and not my belief.

Too many people Idolize to much as you say, Ministers, Entertainers, Politicians. I don't worship any of them. They are no better than you or I.

My thoughts as far as politicians go is that WE should make the rules and laws governing their actions and behaviors. If that were the case, George W would have been fired a long time ago.


 
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