Oh man. I hate that.

What would you like to talk about?

I'm all ears

~*Rebekah*~*316*~

I don't really know what to say. I've been saying it in my blogs, really. I just keep reaching out to people and they don't respond. They really just change the topic or simply don't get it. They don't like to talk about feelings or things that matter. I miss the friends that used to have things like that in common with me and would know exactly what to do, even when I didn't know what I wanted them to do. I really don't know what I want to talk about,or what I want. I just know that I miss it. I miss when I had people who liked to listen, people who liked to respond, friends who cared and understood. 

Oh man, I know what you mean.  It's not very fulfilling to have a conversation with someone who's intellectual level is that of a two year old. 

 

   I have friends whom, I CAN have intellectual conversations with.  But most of them are very busy and having friends who share the same ideals always helps. 

 

~*Rebekah*~*316*~

Mm.. I don't have anyone anymore.

I'm sorry.  I wish I knew how to help you.

 

~*Rebekah*~*316*~

It's not your fault.

I know. I still wish that I could help you.

 

~*Rebekah*~*316*~

I don't really know how you could.

I don't either xD

 

~*Rebekah*~*316*~

Yeah. So don't feel bad. 

Ok....lol, I don't.

 

~*Rebekah*~*316*~

You said sorry up there. But ok. good. 

I do and I don't....if that makes any sense. 

 

~*Rebekah*~*316*~

Kind of, but could you explain please?

Well, because I feel bad that I can't help because I like to help people cheer up and I don't because you told me not to.

 

~*Rebekah*~*316*~

Heh okay. Well you feel how you feel, whether it's what I want or not. 

lol, that's true.

 

~*Rebekah*~*316*~

Mhm.

How was your 4th of July?
+Saphyra+Wolfsbane+316+

You mean for celebrations? 'Cause I am Canadian.. we celebrate July 1. But as for just a normal day, well, it was pretty unproductive and just meh. You?

ah....I'm from Colorado, USA and so we celebrate July 4th. 

 

It was ok.  I watched a very interesting documentary about wine.

 

~*Rebekah*~*316*~

 

--every presidental election I feel less and less Patriotic.....that is not a good sign.

Ah I see.

That's nice.

Hmm... maybe not.

If you want to find other people who feel similar - I recommend a tag search / click on one of your own tags - and you can use your own experiences to each other's benefit

But I do realise how hard it is to get to a lot of them - a lot are unwilling, and generally the common problem seems (for me and so i'd expect probably for you) that who I/you reach to don't realise how we do/have felt, so don't realise what you do understand. People may underestimate you because they are unable to imagine anyone outside their stereotype of what 'other people' are like. If they don't give you a chance when your intention is good, that's not your fault.

I fail to get across a lot on some blogs (i.e. SEB), it's a fact of life, it ultimately depends how people choose to react, they can decide the outcome of some things before you've even met them - but what is hard to see is the subtle, behind the scenes changes it makes in someone's mind- just getting someone to think even remotely about something is making progress, even if they don't show and signs, it may take several events of the same thing before it clicks. Sometimes also people don't feel able to openly admit/acknowledge things, but in their mind they still do, I think of it like planting a tree that will grow later, when the right circumstance fertilizes it.

I agree. And I think I often notice when people do make these connections, I can feel it. I know they understand but when I try to get them to talk about it, they back away. People don't like it when people can see things about them that they try to hide. Generally people just aren't willing to admit it. I used to get connections so much, and they were so strong. It's been such a long time I almost didn't realize what I've been missing. It's so hard to find good people, little alone people that understand or you can connect with. I have met a lot of people who've gone through some of the same things as me, but (not to judge, because I seriously tried), they were the stereoypical teenager who doesn't give a damn about others and wishes to continue feeling miserable and whining about it. Sometimes I do that, and I think we all have those moments, but I am trying my butt off! >.> Anyways I guess. Thanks for replying. Ihaven't given up yet, I just don't try as hard... it takes so much effort, I'm left dying. >.<  

This is interesting and got me thinking - I think it's more difficult when we're forced (by life) to talk to them from outside their own mind, there would be no denying or hiding from a thought that came from within their own mind - some people tend to prefer thoughts that they believe are their own. Any concious effort I make to talk to anyone goes through a physical form (i.e. words), that is presented to the reader, then they decide what to do with them, but subconciously they can pick up on my mannarisms and patterns of how I react, etc, especially when they are working with me all day - and I rely totally on that for winning people over, if I said it in words they'd be unwilling to hear because it was 'boasting' and the use of words means it's gone through the concious, and some people hold it against people what they are knowingly thinking (personally I don't think it can really be helped, and if somethings an issue to anyone, they gotta think about it to deal with it). In debate it can sometimes work to pin them down, so there's no avoiding accepting/dealing with the point - but I have known some truely determined to evade, and again, their willingness is their ability to hear - so you deserve credit for listening like you do, without having/letting any prejudice blind you from what the words really say/intend

For the people who don't want to be helped / want to continue as is - I think they do this because they haven't totally explored that feeling yet - when they are satisfied and done their thinking about it, they'll be more likely to want to move on, and may ask more genuinely for help, there are times when they ask for help but don't really mean it (I think they said it because it's part of 'what people say' when they feel how they are portraying themselves). It doesn't seem clear cut, all shades of grey, so I do try to accelerate it by blindly batting ideas at them in hope it'll hit something at some stage, but I don't expect to see anything anytime soon, when they're good and ready, they may think on what people had said in the past, and they'll remember what me/you said, then it'll do it's job.

Your efforts deserve credit too and are unselfish because you're doing it without expecting a reward, and also you keep yourself in check - you had the guts to admit (not only to yourself, but to me too) that you see a bit of those teenagers in you - maybe that's harsh on yourself because it's just the past and doesn't apply (at least as much) anymore, but saying that does show that you do have the humility to admit to yourself, the ability to identify, and the strength to withstand stuff through self-criticism, and that also deserves credit
I'm fed up of a lot of these traits going unrewarded or even punished in society, if what I say fits, it must be true, it's not being me nice about it, it's me being honest about what those traits are and what they say - this may sound wierd but I like/dislike traits, not people - people harbour traits (even protect them by putting themselves first), but as soon as traits change, so does my response (I don't hold the person to the past, because it's the trait I'm after, not them) - it's never personal with me

Wow that's a lot to respond to. Hmm.

Yeah, I think picking up on mannerisms is part of it. I think you do have to listen well to notice them, and not a lot of people listen well because they don'tcare. However, I think some people do listen intently but still are unable to pick up on those things. Thanks for the credit, no one seems to give it anymore, and I don't even know myself if and where or when it is due. I really try to analyse if I do something well or not well and give credit  good or bad, like taking responsibility when I made a mistake or something.

Maybe they will, I think people do reflect on what people say to them, whether they choose to or like it or not. sometimes peoplesay things that just stick, and they may not show it, but it sticks with them and they think about it. It's hard to know, but I know people who have come to me later and told me about things I said, and I have experienced this myself. It's just hard to know, and feel a connection when the other person is fighting it.

Thank you. Honesty is good. I try to criticise myself fairly. I understand I am not perfect and I can be immature sometimes, just like anybody. When I say something about myself, or when someone says something about me, I think about it. I try to look at it and see if it's true or not. Sometimes I'll think, "I'm so stupid!" or "I think I handled that well"... butthen I will (usually) challenge it. I sometimes forget to or decide not to challenge the negative things though, part of my negative thinking I am fighting. >.<

I'm not sure I understand where you're going with the traits thing... I don't think I understand what you're trying to say... what is harbouring them.. protecting themselves...? I'm sorry.

Sounds good, it hadn't occurred to me that sometimes they can listen but it not register (or at least not straight away, or maybe register but not show). Intention is the decider for me, if they aren't deliberately avoiding the point, and it's important and comes up later, they'll get it eventually, from then onwards it's plainer sailing (albeit maybe with a lot of explaining). Regarding credit, I reckon people deserve the intention they give, be that good or bad - if you intend to help, you deserve that intention back.

Depends on the person - people like me + you do seem to think deeply after the event, my dad on the other hand would just put on the TV - I suppose it depends on how much it registers, I wouldn't want to hold any feeling for too long though, because it might outdate

Not many keep themselves in check as much as you - and we're only human anyways, we make mistakes, at least you identify them - doesn't have to be a concious effort though

I look at 'Traits' as parts of personality that I allow to change with time -  if the person changes, so does my view on them quickly (I won't hold them ransom to their past, as long as I see evidence of change) - and I see the common personality patterns among people - so I like/dislike aspects of personality regardless of who houses them - people are just like the nodes that these mindstates get expressed through; each person can be thought of as a doorway between the psychological and the physical, able to allow the mind to do physical things. Each mind can be seperate but they seem to be cut of the same cloth and obey the same rules (and follow roughly the same patterns if they're at the same point + mindstate) - but, as you know, the mind is complex and people can often end up at radically different points, largely because few people experience exactly the same conditions, and people start at different points, decide to break at different points, and make different choices so their life + therefore conditions change.
I think though, given enough time they eventually become more similar again under a more advanced (emotionally considerative) mindstate - but, as you may have seen, that can take much longer in people who haven't been forced to rethink majorly through some kind of emotional crisis, or who didn't realise as much from that as you/i when they did feel like that, so often death can happen first (old age through stubborn unwillingness that carried itself on, or suicide through the pain caused by the upheavel necessary to grow even more) - although it is ultimately their choice, we can alter circumstance for them, maybe to some extent anyway, just by being there and leading by example - showing them there's another way to deal with things that does work
Anyway I'm randomly rambling completely off topic lol

True.

True. Thank you. What do you mean it doesn't have to be a conscious effort?

It makes sense, if the trait is something very key to the reason you like them. I think that's the basis of liking or disliking people, there are very undesirable traits, it's the way traits are. they aren't personal or particular to a specific person, they don't change depening on who they were stuck, they are traits, invariable, I think.

Just like a board game! : P

Mm. True. And heh, it's okay.

On concious effort  -I know I used to always go out of my way to balence my thoughts in my head, or counter anything I didn't feel comfortable with, I suppose that gave all angles, but it was tiring lol - so now I try to let it be more subconcious, because I know that what I say/do isn't always in line with what I'm conciously thinking/feeling - so I think our minds balance it with the whole of what we know automatically. I feel the concious isn't meant to be as rational or balanced as the rest of the mind - it's to find room for improvement for things or help avoid a threat, which may be why it notices negative things more (in me at least) - I am not at peace with myself for being like this, which is partly why I make a concious effort to fight it, even in myself - I suppose it's hard to change what I'd naturally think, that's why I don't blame people for that. I do think though, that if the concious feels something deeply, to the point where the person invests themselves in heavily into an issue, it trickles down into the subconcious.

I was thinking of an analogy also that influenced me - but may seem a bit remote - from the game Civilization, that traits are like countries and people are like the cities - the countries fight each other to control cities (which themselves aren't good/bad, but just controlled and serve + support + fight for the side that controlls them). And that in life there are lots of different levels to it. I think I'm focussed so much on fighting a traits war elsewhere (if only in my head) that it's depersonalised my view of people - almost doesn't matter if people are there at all, or how many there are on either side, it's the intensity on either side that matters. One time I hoped to eventually eliminate certain traits - but I can't in my lifetime! - and new people may need to have them to explore anyway - so they'd automatically form then. Because it's became less and less personal, it's not the person I like/dislike so much anymore, it's things about them - and I can have mixed feelings.
I think myself, and other guys, like to secretly tell themselves they are fighting for something or other, maybe it boosts our self esteem on the inside or somethin' - maybe that's stopping me relax?- maybe though later is the time to relax, I wonder how I'd do if I didn't have something to fight? - suppose I'd be forced to adapt + find a new way to cope

When it seems there isn't much/anything to fight, I think I go into explaining +sharing ideas, the most painful thing by that point is isolation of the mind, explaining helps make them feel more merged, as if they're coming back toward a central point, maybe from different angles, but it doesn't matter as long as they do. I think a large part of that is understanding of each person to give the confidence to open up to them - which I think is needed to 'merge' minds - for want of a better word
I'm talking crap again lol - I'm not filtering stuff so much to you anymore, I feel I can share my half-processed thoughts as well, this (stuff like the above) is how they are in my mind

I try to catch things before other people do...  I think people generally notice negative things more. People don't always notice if everything is going right. If the temperature is just right you may not think of it, but if it's freezing or you're melting, you notice.

I tried that game but it didnt tell me what to do and Itried a million things and I couldn't get anywhere. Maybe.

Go right ahead. : )